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    Amish men say they won't budge on buggy fight

    MAYFIELD, Kentucky (AP) — On Jacob Gingerich's farm in western Kentucky, there is no phone or electricity for his family of 12 children. He even sees putting an orange safety triangle on their black horse-drawn buggy as a violation of the simple and pious life his Amish faith requires.

    He and other Amish men in rural Graves County have become scofflaws for not using the reflective signs, ignoring state law, disobeying orders from a judge and even going to jail for not paying fines.

    To Gingerich and others in the conservative Amish community known as Swartzentruber, using the bright reflective symbol amounts to blasphemy. They consider it garish and believe they should rely on God, not symbols, for protection on the highway.

    "We try to lead a simple, plain life," Gingerich said from his workshop as blue and navy shirts and pants fluttered on a clothesline outside. "Putting that orange triangle on the back of our buggy would not leave our buggies plain anymore."

    He and seven other Amish men were sent to jail in September for a few days for refusing to pay fines related to vehicle sign violations. A ninth Amish man avoided jail time when a local resident paid his fine. At least two other Kentucky counties, Grayson and Logan, have recently summoned men into court for driving unmarked buggies. A court date on Thursday could land more in jail.

    A group of Swartzentruber Amish who recently met with an Associated Press reporter at Gingerich's farm fear they would be treated as outcasts by other Swartzentruber communities around the country if they use the safety triangles.

    Many Amish use the triangles with little objection, but Swartzentruber is a breakaway order that follows even stricter rules on modesty, humility and behavior than other Amish.

    "If we go ahead and put it on, the other groups of the Amish in other states, they would shun us," said Joe Stutzman, another man who has been jailed.

    The issue over triangles has come up before in other states with Amish populations. Ohio, New York and Pennsylvania have allowed exemptions from the orange triangles, and courts in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan have sided with the religious freedom argument.

    But Kentucky authorities say using the orange triangle is still the law.

    "We feel that the reflective triangle is the best way, at least right now, to be able to see those slow-moving objects on the road," said Dean Patterson, a spokesman for the Kentucky State Police.

    Patterson said authorities sympathize with the Amish's religious argument, but "we still incorporate them into the traveling public, so we can't pick and choose who we want to protect. We also have to protect them."

    Collisions of motor vehicles with Amish buggies are often fatal. In November, a teenager using a harness-type horse carriage was killed in central Kentucky when he was struck from behind by an SUV. The buggy did not have a reflective triangle, though the family was not a part of the Swartzentruber order. Several other fatal collisions with Amish buggies happened in the U.S. last year, though it's not clear in each case whether reflective triangles were used.

    The Kentucky Court of Appeals ruled in June that the Amish would not be excused because the law "serves as a condition to utilizing a certain privilege: the use of state roads." The Kentucky Supreme Court plans to hear the case.

    Recorded violations of the law are rare in Kentucky, according to data obtained by the AP. Of 89 violations in the last five years statewide, 57 were in Graves County, according to data compiled by the state Administrative Office of the Courts.

    Gingerich said Swartzentrubers, just as they have for decades, will continue to refuse to hang the triangles or pay fines.

    Graves District Judge Deborah Crooks has set a Thursday deadline for outstanding fines against the nine men, which means Gingerich and others could be sent back to jail. Gingerich owes more than $600 in fines and court costs.

    "If we would go ahead and pay the fine, I think we would be working against our own religious beliefs," Gingerich said. "We will not pay the court to prosecute us for our religious beliefs."

    Gingerich keeps a file cabinet drawer full of court papers on his farm. One is a 2004 letter from Cunningham, the Graves County Attorney, who said the Amish buggies could use gray reflective tape and hanging lanterns.

    That's just what Gingerich and his friends did, but he said they began receiving tickets a few years ago.

    Cunningham "says he sent letters out to let us know that law is not validated anymore," Gingerich said. He said he never received the letter.

    The judge and county attorney did not return calls seeking comment.

    The jailings in September outraged some Kentuckians, even outside of Graves County.

    "When I first heard about this, a little voice in the back of my head said you should really help them out down there," said Michael Meeks, a Louisville business owner who spent time on a Quaker farm as a youth. Meeks paid Gingerich's outstanding fines in September, freeing him from jail a couple of days early.

    "They're not breaking the law in my mind," said John Via, a Mayfield resident and a former state transportation worker who also paid an Amish man's court fine in September. "But they got a jail record that will travel with them the rest of our days."

    Kentucky lawmakers could solve the impasse. Some legislators have proposed changing the law to allow buggies to use gray reflective tape instead of the orange signs.

    "I think the Amish are in the right, it's that simple," said Rep. Johnny Bell, a Democrat from south-central Kentucky who plans to file legislation next month. "I think they should be allowed the lifestyle that they choose, as well as the rest of us."

    Aside from religious objections, the Amish men say the reflective triangle offers no more protection from a car than the gray reflective tape. To support that, Gingerich cites a 2001 Penn State University study concluding that reflective tape instead of the triangle would "not result in a safety reduction for the Swartzentruber Amish."

    Levi Hostetler was struck by a car coming around a bend in Graves County a couple of years ago, destroying his buggy and sending him to the hospital with a concussion. He wonders what difference an orange triangle would have made.

    The car's driver "said he couldn't see nothing," Hostetler said. "Didn't matter if I had Christmas lights or whatever on, he couldn't have seen it."

     
    • HTNM  •  Chandler, Arizona  •  4 mths ago
      A word of wisdom to those trying to leave "messages" to the Amish on this thread...THEY WON'T BE READING THEM...
      • Michael 4 mths ago
        Hiya cat...I worked for years at a NE Ohio amusement park not far from an Amish cluster...The adolescent Amish girls would get dropped off by their 'English' friends-straight to the restrooms, emerging with tube tops, short shorts, and badly done make-up...they couldn't wait to get mainstream...
      • Glenn G 4 mths ago
        they probably will use their neighbors computer
      • Floydr47 4 mths ago
        I agree with HTNM...if the Amish refuse to put reflective triangles on their buggies then they probably don't have internet on their cell phones either...
    • Eddie the Basque  •  4 mths ago
      It is funny that we are here commenting on the Amish and not one of them is going to be reading this - or at least they shouldn't be, if they are true to their beliefs. If they get hit by a car, do they take the driver to court?
      • Drake Iverson 4 mths ago
        Yes, they do. But they want to be reimbursed in corn.
      • Josie 4 mths ago
        Yes they do!! They have won many lawsuits as well.
      • really 4 mths ago
        Josie: How? If a car is driving down the road with no lights on and an accident occurs, doesn't that make the driver of that car at least equally liable? I have to wonder, too, how a group of people who don't obey the laws of the state they are in can also take advantage of other laws? Do you actually know of cases where the Amish have sued and won?
    • AwakeAlertOrientedx3  •  4 mths ago
      Put a lantern on the back of your buggy then.
      • Rusty 4 mths ago
        Great idea. this should be a requirement at night
      • MyKill 4 mths ago
        Front and back.
      • Marcus 4 mths ago
        I was wondering the same thing, if a lantern would violate the "simplicity" rule, unfortunately as someone pointed out in jest, The amish won't be reading these messages to reply to them.
    • Susan  •  4 mths ago
      Energy efficient vehicle….runs on oats and grass….do not step in exhaust.
      • Irishwoman 4 mths ago
        I would have clicked "thumbs up" but I love your comment.
      • Irishwoman 4 mths ago
        I would have clicked "thumbs up" but I love your comment.
      • Supergeeze 4 mths ago
        You just SILLY!!!!
    • First L  •  Rochester, New York  •  4 mths ago
      WE Have Amish in western NY =Driving home one dark night I see flashing yellow lights ahead -Its a Black buggy with a black horse -If not for the lights I would have hit them!!!!!!
      • lady drifter 4 mths ago
        Well now you know their there slow down and pay attention!
      • nuxy 4 mths ago
        what a stupid comment lady drifter...this is basically like driving a car with no tailights 5 mph in the dark...
      • Adela Juliana 4 mths ago
        There was a time people didn't have a car

        and to have to fight for oil
        with those evil Arabs is better to be like the Amish
    • Don  •  4 mths ago
      The Amish in my area use the trianglar reflectors in addition to 4 way battery operated flashers.
    • Don  •  Barberton, Ohio  •  4 mths ago
      I'm all for letting the Amish live their "simple" life, but I also feel for the person who hits and kills someone when they can't be seen. The Amish AREN'T the only victums...
    • Holapeople  •  4 mths ago
      what about the other drivers on the road and their safety...?
    • Scortch Dearth  •  4 mths ago
      You cannot see a black buggy at night, and believe it or not, most people do not want to kill anyone.
      If they don't comply to this one, reasonable requirement to utilize the public roads, then they should not be allowed access to them. Period.
    • Political_Alchemist  •  4 mths ago
      I've not read a single thing in the bible that says you shouldn't be pragmatic about common sense issues like public safety. No one is asking them to stop living as they do or believing what they believe. They're being asked to take the wisdom of reasonable precautionary measures. I could hope that God keeps me warm in winter too but I choose to wear clothing. I could hope that God keeps me from diseases but I choose to wash my hands when appropriate. See what I mean? I can't fathom a god who would condemn me for doing any of those things.
    • Bruce  •  Liberty, New York  •  4 mths ago
      Let's all drive horse and buggies and tell the oil companies to kiss our donkeys.
    • A Yahoo! User  •  4 mths ago
      Many years ago, I was driving to a relatives after dark near Springfield, Mo. It was pouring down rain. I was on a two lane road and suddenly there was an Amish buggy right ahead of me. I was so surprised to see it. I almost crashed my car while trying to avoid hitting it.
    • michael  •  4 mths ago
      This is not just dangerous for the Amish. What about the person who has to make a split second decision to swerve and risk his own life or crash into a vehicle and kill others. What about damage to my vehicle as they don't have insurance. If they want to live in their own communities and make their own rules, fine. But when you want to travel (among the English and use the roads paid for by gas taxes) then you must follow traffic laws. Putting an orange triangle on your buggy does not hurt your freedom of religion.
    • Dibeetus  •  4 mths ago
      I don't care if it's a triangle, just put something up that reflects. Come on man, it ain't about the "man" keeping you down, It's about me not wanting to hit you any more than than you want me to wipe out your whole family. Meat us halfway dude.
    • Old Geezer  •  4 mths ago
      Oh for crying out loud. The Amish have been doing this in Penn for years. God didn't say not use common sense!
    • bosco  •  4 mths ago
      I have run upon these buggies at night with a semi tractor trailer rig and it is one hair puckering ,scary,nerve racking, indescribable moment that no one should have to go through if the religious people are going to put these buggies on the road at night they need some lights and reflective triangles period no compromise because they are using the same roads we use while we are traveling at higher speeds. I guarantee if one of us collide they have no insurance to cover any damages to my vehicle if they are in the wrong. I say let them rot in jail if they do not want to have any respect for me or anyone out on the road, it is not a one way streak on this law about who has to obey it. If these people want to not obey the laws they might want to get their own straightaways through the neighbors property to avoid public roads if they think triangles are decor. This is about safety to all the people involved on the road.
    • Clinton  •  Kansas City, Missouri  •  4 mths ago
      the bible i read says to obey the laws of the land does it not???
    • L T  •  San Jose, California  •  4 mths ago
      This comment as taken from the article "To Gingerich and others in the conservative Amish community known as Swartzentruber, using the bright reflective symbol amounts to blasphemy. They consider it garish and believe they should rely on God, not symbols, for protection on the highway." shows that they have not learned that god gave them a brain to use and that someone invented this triangle as part of god's way of protecting them. This is not a case of religious freedoms, it's a case of public safety which covers ALL religions. Let them live how they want to live, no problem, but in using PUBLIC roads you have to obey the laws of the land. That is one of god's ways that he is trying to protect you...
    • Skip  •  Topeka, Kansas  •  4 mths ago
      Sorry folks but your religious rights end at the point where they endanger those who don't share your beliefs. When a car collides with a horse and buggy the driver in the car is as apt to get hurt as anyone else. If they don't have enough sense to care about their OWN injuries they should at least understand their obligation to keep others safe.
    • Ryan  •  Los Angeles, California  •  4 mths ago
      Amish Guy in Heaven: "Oh God, someone hit my buggy at night and killed me. I thought you would protect me!"
      God: "That's why I made the signs!"
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