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    Contrary Indicator

    Obama Says China Has “Grown Up” Economically. Has It?

    On Monday, President Obama articulated what many policymakers and economic analysts in the developed world have been thinking: Now that it has "grown up," China should have a more adult attitude toward trade, protecting domestic markets, its currency, foreign aid, and participation in international institutions.

    Of course, that's not quite how China sees itself and its position in the world.

    I recently returned from China, where I visited factories, met with government and military officials, and spent time in an impoverished village in the countryside outside Xi'an, as well in a swanky, New York-style cocktail lounge at the top of Beijing's tallest building. (In the accompanying video, I discuss my impressions with Aaron Task.)

    And there's a kind of schizophrenia. China is proud of and recognizes its growing financial heft and record of strong growth, its position as a huge consumer of commodities and an important producer of goods. There is plenty of evidence -- luxury retailers, modern hotels, fancy infrastructure, skyscrapers — that China has matured economically. But the country still has a self-image as a gangly adolescent, a 98-pound weakling that is too focused on its own issues to be much help (or much of a menace) on the international stage. "In my very first class, I always tell my students that China is poor, large, and rapidly growing, with a very diverse level of development," said David Li, the Harvard trained economist who runs the Center for China in the World Economy at the Tsinghua University School of Economics and Management in Beijing.

    The China of Shanghai and Beijing and luxury retailers and raging car sales is real. But it's only a small part of the picture. This is a country that essentially sat out the 20th century, and that is only 15 years removed from utter poverty. People who live in Shanghai can all remember when Pudong, the business district on the far bank of the Huangpu River, was rice paddies and farms. A huge chunk of the population remains outside the consuming mainstream. "China is in the process of developing from a poor country to a rich country," says Wen Hai, a senior professor of economics at Peking University. "We still have 50 percent of our population living in agriculture areas, but they only account for 10 percent of GDP."

    For every indication that China is ahead or equal to the U.S., there are hints of the country's relative economic weakness. When I visited the military base of the 6th Armored Division on the outskirts of Beijing, I saw tanks that looked like ones the U.S. relied on in the 1970s. Defense officials told me and a group of journalists that the People's Liberation Army is 25-30 years behind the U.S. army technologically, and that China simply doesn't spend that much on its military. The PLA, they said, was still in the process of mechanization and was a long way from integrating information technology thoroughly into its operations.

    "Military spending as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product has been between 1.3 and 1.5 percent for the last 18 or 19 years," says Yao Yunzho, a senior colonel who directs a research unit in the Academy of Military Science's Department of World Military Studies. Given the country's eagerness to adapt the latest technology for civil sectors like transports and logistics, I found the modesty a little hard to swallow. (The World Bank in 2009 put China's military spending at 2 percent of GDP, compared with 4.7 percent for the U.S.)

    China would like the world to believe that it is spending all its resources to maintain the breakneck pace of economic growth. This is a matter of politics, not just economics. Despite the lack of political competition and direct national elections, the party line is that China's government is under immense pressure. If local, regional and national officials fail to complete projects, improve living standards, and deliver on economic growth, they'll lose their legitimacy. For the overwhelming majority of people in China, including (and especially) the elites, the rise in economic growth and living standards trumps the lack of political freedom or ability to dissent.

    Beyond the need to focus on its own substantial economic problems, China may simply not be emotionally ready to play a full role in international financial affairs. With its long history of invasions and an enduring sense of economic inferiority, China simply isn't that confident in dealing with the outside world. Says Wen Hai, "We still lack the human resources to play an international role."

    Like many adolescents, in other words, China is too obsessed with its own problems, desires and frailties to take into account the needs of others. When it comes to economics, China may have the body of a grown up, but it has the mind of a teen.

    Daniel Gross is economics editor at Yahoo! Finance.

    Follow him on Twitter @grossdm; email him at grossdaniel11@yahoo.com.

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    334 comments

    • jv  •  6 mths ago
      Everything in our homes should show: MADE IN USA and not MADE IN CHINA period.
      But we flooded with China crap and the 1% richest of our country 287% richer than decades ago when our beloved politicians decided outsourcing our country.
    • john  •  5 mths ago
      Ok Americans this is the truth!! Most of the villages lives on the country side they grow their food and chickens and pigs so they don't need to make "money" to cover their expenses. They don't have mortgages like American have and they are happy people. The houses they live in they build their own so they don't need to buy houses from a developer . Farmers have their own land. Compare them to U.S its like to compare apple and oranges. The villagers and farmers eat healthy natural food instead of pesticide grown food in western world super markets. Everything grown in countryside is natural. Yes they might earn extreme low wages compare to western world but they have their own house they grown their own natural food when there are excess they sale it to the market. They are content and happy and enjoy life instead of stress from modern life of a western people. They also live longer because of their diet. The problem in U.S. is the system the system want you to go Walmart and McDonald and buy a Buick and paid for the insurance and buy a condo. The system want you be in debt and want you spend the money you don't have. The exteme capitalism do not work. The only importance is a balance of "Yin and Yang" both capitalism and socialism constant balance each other. This ridiculous blaming China is taking U.S. jobs is ridiculous. Who is the one sending the cheap labor to China? U.S. executives and board of Directors who want higher profits. Why blame China for "Slave Labor" they are not slave because the living standard are cheaper so how can you compete with happy cheap labor because their living expense is cheaper. therefore what slave labor? The problem is U.S. is too expensive to live and corporate American who is controlling all the cost of spending making America too expensive and wages are too high to sustain. Imagine this if you want to eat a breakfast only cost you $0.50 cents in the current market and rent a 800 square foot house for $ 500 dollars in Shanghai a modern city and all the average expense is half the price how much can you imagine to save? The Auto motive company and oil company and insurance company want you to rely on them they want you to spend!!! Onthe countryside of China they propably have more than average american in lifestyle Besides all the modern gadgets western people have but all the nacessity they have and are alot cheaper. Get the picture now.Learn from the Chinese and the Germans there economy is sustainable.
      Another thing is Average product in retail price is 5 times the manufacturing price. A $20 dollar item in manufacturing price in China is about $4 dollars. The corporate America makes majority of the profit. Manufacturer in China lucky make a 20-25 margin of the manufacturing price. Now who is the pig. China also facing pollution problem from manufacturing so please take out the OEM work somewhere else. China is control by one party the communist party but the enonmy is both socialism and capitalism combine. Thats why they have high speed rail system for all people to travel around China the ticket from shanghai to Beijing is only $85 dollars and you can take as much baggage you like the ride takes 5 hours. Its definitely cheaper than airlines. This is the benefit of socialism. Power of People.
      • di 5 mths ago
        1. The seemingly good life of a Chinese farmer you stated does not exist. If it were truly stress free and "balanced," I challenge you to put on the straw hat for while and see for youself. I cannot believe you wrote that much on something of which you have little knowledge.
        2. You are right that America is benefiting from importing labor from China, slave or not, for China is clearly more labor abudant than the US.
        3. You keep going back to China's countryside, which makes me hesitate in challenging you to be a farmer there because you may have already won.
        4. True that the margin for manufacturing products used be high, but it is getting smaller and smaller due to currency issues and sluggish consumer market of the US.
        5. One of the high speed train derailed not long ago, killing 30 some people injuring 200+, not sure the investigation for the accident ever finished. You may think that $85 is affordable to an average Chinese traveller, but it is not, and not to mention the hard to resolve safety issues.
        6. "Power of People?" seriously, where you got that, Mao, Lenin? I almost laughed out loud.
      • A Yahoo! User 5 mths ago
        John, there is a lot to what you say. I noticed the same thing, but could not put my finger on it. They also love their country too, each house often has a little altar to Mao. Although, they are "very" hesitant to talk politics, or policy, which is a little disconerting from the America habit of spouting out any idiotic think that pops in our heads.... which I love about our USA for. Although, it is equally frustrating to hear the idiotic dribble.
      • mr. tree 5 mths ago
        Di, it's obvious you have never been to China. Your arguments on Chinese farmers... well you don't seem to have one.

        I'll tell you one thing, trains in China are cheap and affordable for all classes. Every holiday trains are packed with middle and low class citizens traveling from the city they work in (maybe Beijing, Shanghai, or wherever) to their hometown (usually less developed cities, sometimes even farm areas). And trains derailing? There's train accidents in every big city. Irrelevant.

        I'm not agreeing with everything John said, but think of his post as a Chinese person's view. I'd say a great majority, easily more than 90%, of China's people love their country and support their country. That's a lot more than the US.
    • Steven  •  6 mths ago
      The US runs on its citizens consumerism financed by unsecured credit (Credit Cards) If US Corporations hadn't went offshore to purchase the lowest quality merchandise to sell for maximum price and to out source US jobs overseas for maximum profits for their stock holders and WS hadn't manipulated the Real Estate market and Banks hadn't sold mortgages like stocks, all of which promoted the loss of US Dollars spending power, then US workers would have money to purchase US goods, pay taxes (as the Rich do not), and refinance the equity out of their homes to pay off Credit Card debt. The Republicans lead by Bush promoted further and aggressive offshore investment and goods purchases, outsourcing, Mega Banks (McCain wrote the legislation that made this possible), the result caused the whole cycle of consumerism to crash around the countries ears.
    • Steven  •  6 mths ago
      At Tony G, what you just wrote about China could be applied to the US from a Chinese point of view, "why is it building a massive military and going after edit Sovereign Countries edit so openly in the face of everyone? Why do they promote other regimes like itself, killers, suppresionists. Then why do we support their stance against us as if we should be the ones to keep feeding it as it stays on a perch looking down on us and building directly against us? "
      • philwasman 5 mths ago
        I agree The U.S. is the misbehaving gangling adolescent on the world scene
    • Groucho Marxist  •  5 mths ago
      China has grown up, whilst the U.S. is now led by an immature boy in a man's body.
    • jv  •  6 mths ago
      Those politicians who supported outsourcing, should be criminally responsible for their actions.
    • Michael  •  5 mths ago
      If you want to see an impoverished village, go to DETROIT.
    • John  •  5 mths ago
      Well go be their president so you can send them backwards like you did the US. You #$%$
    • The Roman  •  5 mths ago
      The US and China have the same problem, GOVERNMENT ELITES! We both have people that want to be free of government oppression. We just have a different name and face for ours. Both governments try to justify their actions and why we can't live without them.
    • Harry  •  6 mths ago
      The way Chinese people look at them self despite all this enormous growing strong economy but still need more improving and never feel content..thats how their economy keep on growing..and humble people
      • Clicks Clacks 5 mths ago
        The lower classes are forced to be humble while the upper classes KNOW it's all #$%$ so they only talk big when making a deal.
    • i  •  5 mths ago
      He says that "American consumers are not daunted by the rise in prices on Chinese goods"
      Well, part of that us because the US government has allowed the destruction of so many US manufacturers via policy, that you can't buy many items in America anymore; they are made in China instead.
    • jeff  •  6 mths ago
      It is probably because this country China is a communist country. Until the people are truely free to pursue their dreams, the large portion of the population will be impoverished. The state owns everything, or permision must be given to own things like cars, homes etc.. Personal incomes are controlled and even taken when too much is made personally.
      • Distant cousin 6 mths ago
        Vary uninformed comment, must b a republican
      • Montana Basset Rescue 5 mths ago
        Really? I assumed Jeff was a "progressive". Would make more sense, since every Progressive I've ever met is an ignorant fool.
      • Trent Lamb 5 mths ago
        comical, another person making American's look like idiots. The minute you use the phrase "China is a communist country" you show exactly how little you know about China. And when you talk about the Chinese being 'free' to pursue their dreams, do you even know what you are talking about? I live here, I have watched them pursue dreams with little to any government interference (far too little) compared to the US. "The state owns everything..?" where do you get this drivel? Permission to own cars, home, etc, incomes taken when too much is made.... haha, you are certainly misinformed at best, but very dangerous spreading horse pucky to the rest of the uninformed masses.
    • James  •  6 mths ago
      I would rather hear that the US has grown up economically! I can't believe how ridiculous our elected officials behave. A bag of hammers could do a better job!
    • Red White and So Blue  •  6 mths ago
      "In Sam we Trust," the Walmart motto.
      • LLLLL 5 mths ago
        Sam's been dead a long time now.
    • Dougal  •  5 mths ago
      Nineteenth century America ruined Britain by hiding its industries behind tariff walls and dumping. The South wanted British imports. Hence the Civil War
      Now the tables are turned
    • A Yahoo! User  •  5 mths ago
      I think this is the first Vido I have seen from Yahoo: Ecellent: so much better than most other junk. Its a little bit like "On Point" from NPR in that it stays on point of the story, not just a show of pretty, and cute, the newscasters. Thanks, Yahoo!
    • mp  •  6 mths ago
      time to start counting those unemployed rather than those on unemployment.
    • Rebecca  •  5 mths ago
      America has a high level of unemployment, China uses slave labor, which I'm going to say , probably doesn't pay very well= decreased consumerism. I don't understand how the American companies that moved over to foreign countries ,expected this to work? They are operating in foreign countries, where they don't have a market for a lot of things that they produce. They depend on American consumerism sell their product. So if we can't buy, they can't sell. We need more self-substaing economies. We need some long range thinking.
      So big business doesn't want to deal with U.S. taxes, unions, the EPA and OSHA. Well, pardon us for wanting good paying jobs, so we can be viable consumers(Wouln't that benifet them as well?) Pardon us for having organizations in place designed to protect our labor force. And ,oh, they don't want to pay taxes. Why should they feel the need to contribute to our roads, schools, ect. So after they've taken enough jobs and everyone goes low-rent, who is going to buy all those goods coming in from all those foreign countries? Seems to me it would be better to have a market where you produce. Pay people well enough to buy, and play by the rules.Either that or they can sell Cardinals baseball caps in China ,see how that works out for them?.
    • Majik  •  6 mths ago
      Obama has less than one year to change the toddler image he created around the world for himself. With one thumb stuck in his mouth and the other up the American's south end, at least those who still think he is actually worthy of a vote. China is not the problem. The Muslim populated Black House and the worthless Congress are what is killing America. All of these dam idiots have to go. This election year every single American old enough to vote can make a huge difference as to

      NEVER RE-ELECT ANYONE!
    • John  •  5 mths ago
      Deliver cost let talk about that power i use 17.00 in the summer deliver cost me 48.00 what wrong. nat gas I use 4.86 in the summer delver cost me 42.58 what wrong whis that .now the cost of gas 3.76 an gal.I have to work it cost me 152.00 doller an week time buy 4 week it 600.18 doller ins 128.00 an month .owning an home cost around 600.00 an month now all to gether it 1.568.62 ok and that one person now i make anround 1.200 an month no over time whis over time mabe 400.00 more an month were can i buy anythang .cost of liveing cost to must and were my food. food price going up ever day .if you work on lower power, nat gas , deliver prices and gas. price of food will go down . deliver price get it down mabe we can buy thing for are home,work on are yard, get work done on are home buy thing for are kid, and maybe get out and have an beer at time .if they work on all this. put ever one back to work.you have to buy thing so everone can work to make thing.

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