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    The Lookout

    Is a double-dip recession the least of our fears? Why the economy could be in for a decade of stagnation

    AP Photo/Mel EvansAmid bleak economic growth and unemployment, the stock market swoon, and the downgrade of the credit rating of the federal government, the fear of a dreaded double-dip recession--or even of a 21st-century Great Depression--has been taking hold.

    But a rough consensus among economists may be starting to emerge. According to this line of thinking, although a double-dip is certainly possible, a long period of stagnation--that is, frustratingly low growth--is more likely, much like what we've seen since the recession officially ended two years ago. That would be preferable to another recession, of course. But it would mean that ordinary Americans--especially the roughly 26 million who either can't find a job or have given up looking--can look forward to years of hardship.

    "I think extended stagnation, rather than a double-dip, is most likely," Mark Thoma, an economics professor at the University of Oregon, told The Lookout.

    An Associated Press survey of economists released Tuesday put the likelihood of a recession--that is, another two or more straight quarters of economic contraction--before August 2012 at only 26 percent. But the respondents also expected the economy to inch along at just 2.1 percent growth for the rest of the year, and to barely do better in 2012.

    The Federal Reserve appears to take a similar view. Announcing earlier this month that it would hold interest rates near zero for at least another two years, the central bank said it "now expects a somewhat slower pace of recovery over coming quarters" than it had previously--a prediction that's consistent with a lengthy period of weak growth.

    And J.P. Morgan, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley all cut their growth forecasts last week, with J.P. Morgan predicting just 1 percent growth for the fourth quarter of the year--lower even than the 1.3 percent figure from the second quarter that helped spark double-dip speculation. Morgan Stanley cited in part the federal government's expected spending cuts, which would likely have a negative effect on growth.

    Some economists think the focus on the double-dip is counter-productive, because it downplays the damage that a lengthy period of weak growth would do.

    "The goal isn't to stay above zero," Jared Bernstein, who recently stepped down as an economic adviser to Vice President Joe Biden, wrote last week. "It's to grow fast enough to put people back to work."

    Bernstein argues that instead of focusing narrowly on whether the economy is growing or shrinking, we should look at whether the economy is meeting its potential growth rate, which, based on productivity and the growth of the labor force, is 2.4 percent. By that standard, we've been in what Bernstein calls a "growth recession"--a period when the economy is technically expanding, but not by enough to exceed its potential--since the middle of last year.

    According to some scholars, history suggests that's not likely to change any time soon. In a paper written last year for the Kansas City Fed, economists Carmen and Vincent Reinhart found that the impact on the economy and job growth of an economic "shock" like the bursting of the housing bubble and the subsequent financial crisis typically lingers for around a decade. "Income growth tends to slow and unemployment remains elevated for a very long time after a severe shock," they wrote, predicting "a lengthy period of retrenchment."

    Even longer-term trends may be in play, too. In his recent e-book, The Great Stagnation, George Mason University economics professor Tyler Cowen argues that developed economies worldwide are in the midst of a slowdown, because the pace of innovation is slowing. For the developed world, large-scale, growth-generating improvements like electricity, penicillin and mass education are all largely completed. The next wave of similar advances--the Internet being the prime example--aren't employing as many people as those that came before.

    According to Thoma, the rise in long-term joblessness--already at record levels--that would accompany prolonged stagnation would likely lead to a glut of people dropping out of the labor force entirely, after spending months or years searching fruitlessly for work. Many of these would likely be older workers who decide to simply hang on until Social Security kicks in.

    Other workers, especially those in fast-moving industries like technology, would see their skills erode, making it even harder for them to find work, Thoma said. And even those who found work would likely see a reduction in their lifetime earnings, the evidence suggests.

    As Thoma summed it up: "The longer the recovery drags on, the more permanent the damage."

     

    2,176 comments

    • G I JOE  •  9 mths ago
      Mr Obama can't fix the problem since the republicans block every attempt he makes. It is STILL the republicans that hold the country hostage. Remember it all started with Bush#2 in the whitehouse. If he had not started the second war we woould not be there to begin with. THE TEA PARTY MUST GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The republicans wanted to shout the gov. down just to prove a point with no concern at the cost!!!!!!!!!!
      • Jerry 9 mths ago
        You have 2/3's of the Gov't and before that 3/3's. You're a loser like O'dipshit and all his supporters.
      • Mich 9 mths ago
        Thank you for voting this cloun in to office, you just don't want to believe that your Mr. Obama is the problem and everything that he does hurts this country.
      • Jeff 9 mths ago
        It started when Bush was president and democrats held both the house and the senate... but you blame Bush. Now that Obama is president, and HAD BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, and STILL HAS THE SENATE, now it's not the president's fault, it's the minority party. Wow, the left learned a lot from the communists about brainwashing...
    • A Yahoo! User  •  9 mths ago
      I think it's a lie that we ever came out of the recession.
      • Cal 9 mths ago
        Except that "recession" has a specific meaning. It doesn't mean "high unemployment".
    • Randal  •  9 mths ago
      Good to know what the folks who could not see the housing collapse and bank crisis think.

      I imagine the solution is to give more money to bankers, start a war, and take away more liberties.
    • jaymode  •  9 mths ago
      America voted in a President with Absolutely no experience what so ever, and the man follows a Marxist doctrine. And Joe Biden, the man gets stupider, everytime he opens his mouth, he is a disgrace to the country and himself, please keep him under lock and key for his own sake.
      • One Big One 9 mths ago
        Isn't Joey Blowie a hoot, he's dumber than G.W. Bush and that's saying a lot. Keep him tied up and gagged for the next 29 months.
    • Don  •  9 mths ago
      You can't polish a turd. HOPE we CHANGE president nin 2012.
    • A Yahoo! User  •  9 mths ago
      if you all will remember when Clinton was in office we were actually in the Black and the unemployment rate was at it lowest so i tell you who messed up this great country it was the dam Republicans when JR took office and she should have never been elected it should have been Gore and there would be no Iraq war no trillions in debt just a well run country
      • Cal 9 mths ago
        Gore was elected by the American people. Unfortunately he wasn't selected by the Supreme Court.
      • Mark 9 mths ago
        if you want to know it was clinton that want everyone to own a home. and look where that got us.. in the poor house.. it was Regain that put us in the black not clinton...
      • Jane 9 mths ago
        LMAO Mark, I know you mean Reagan.. but seriously when you worship someone try and get the name right. Also, I'm pretty sure it was the banks who got use into that housing mess, and the fact that people were signing mortgages without a set interest rate. Wanting everyone to own houses isn't bad.

        In my opinion, the American people and shoddy business practices got us into this mess. NOT the government. Either you want gov't to regulate businesses or you don't, but if you don't then just shut your mouth when you get screwed over instead of blaming the government.
    • A Yahoo! User  •  9 mths ago
      What i find amazing is that people who say less government is the solution either turn around and blame the government for there problems or say the government is not "doing it right" Repubicans can't do it right either, dont ignore where all this came from. Surplus -> Deficit. NOW we have the same "tax breaks" plus more from O a. Where are the jobs. Perhaps you think your taxes went up; that's faux news. Read the facts. And for those who say the obama's need to cut back on there "budget". That few million a year they (The office of the POTUS) "spend" will be spent by the federal government before you finish a second cup of coffee in the morning. Its not like he's hanging at the "ranch" for weeks at a time. Get real, belly up, drink your medicene (republicans created 2/3 of the problem - again read the FACTS, not the "philosophy"), get a job and move on.
    • Marty Kleino  •  9 mths ago
      Did Bureaucracy’s greedy Culture of Aggress–DIVIDE–CONTROL, Kill Balanced Democracy, via Strong Middle-Class Unity & Tolerance for FAIR, Interdependent Ethics/Rights? Do we need, even daily non-violent symbolic acts which in past, countered this cultural challenge?
    • Scott  •  9 mths ago
      everyday fox and friends(GOP) speak with contempt for our President. everyday am talk and the GOP network spread hate and fear propaganda about Obama. the list of haters is long, oreilly,hannity,rush,palin,perry,bachmann etc. America does not believe the liars anymore. the fox party has just destroyed itself with all the lying. Game over fox and friends. You just gave back the house and senate at 60+. Obama will win in a landslide even if the unemployment rate is 50% because America knows team fox did this. they were leading on 911 and when the housing crashed. the unpaid wars and tax breaks for the rich helped cause this mess and so did bank deregulation. fox and friends are nothing but a joke now. fair and balanced
      • pat 9 mths ago
        time to wake up!!!!
      • Don 9 mths ago
        It is time to take your meds and get to bed in the padded room.
      • jaymode 9 mths ago
        Dude Obama hasn't got a clue, open your eyes.
    • Nels  •  9 mths ago
      Obama's so-called "Stimulus" Bill cost the taxpayer $278,000 per job!!!
    • A Yahoo! User  •  9 mths ago
      It's demographic ... 1945, the baby-boomers ... 62 years later, the boomers want to retire and unload their houses ... 2007, the housing market fails ... this will last for the next 10-15 years ...
    • Ronnie Haw Rodelas  •  9 mths ago
      The leader might be a big factor that causes such catastrophe in the economy however let's not forget that being unemployed, etc.. etc.. is still up to our efforts. We need to work for what we want and stop blaming others for what we don't have.
    • BrianL  •  9 mths ago
      America is going to Hell in a hand basket !
    • Nels  •  9 mths ago
      Obama = High priced Obamamobiles ($2.2 million each), high unemployment, high gas prices, high spending, high food prices, high taxes and high national debt!! ... Obama and his distinguished colleagues borrow 40 cents for every dollar they spend!! .... Wonder why Obama has a debt problem??? ... Try doing that with your household budget and see how long you last.
    • SMILE  •  9 mths ago
      Most people are tired of the Obama Talk and Shuffle, and want to join him, by ignoring the problem and just get By!
    • Betty  •  9 mths ago
      They mention those with a job and those looking for a job or those who gave up looking for a job. What about those who ended it because they couldn't support their families? Also, what about Republican'ts throwing the unemployed under the food stamp bus?
    • SMILE  •  9 mths ago
      Patriots: Our President in an interview with CNN (which you can youtube on the Saga of My Father) says..."My Father served inWW11, and when he returned he received the needed services"..how can that be when BHO sr. was only 61/2 years old. Perhaps he was speaking of his real Fathe,r that could be Frank Marshall Davis, that fits the age criteria that Obama speaks. How can the Citizens believe a man that continually tells lies?????
    • SMILE  •  9 mths ago
      Three major problems of the US. are The Economy and Illegal Immigration as numbers 2 and 3. However, the number 1 Proplem of our Country is our Lame President.
    • gary  •  9 mths ago
      oy gevalt
    • WiliamH  •  9 mths ago
      Stagflation is more like it. Slow growth in the economy with skyrocketing prices for everyday commodities. Many groceries have gone up another 10-20% over the past 6 months. Prices for everything are up 10% or more over last year. Even if you have a job and are above water...inflation is eating away your income and savings.
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