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    The Lookout

    Should the starting salary for a teacher be $60,000?

    Duncan (AP/Charles Rex Arbogast)

    How would the nation's school system be different if teachers were paid like engineers?

    Secretary of Education Arne Duncan proposed last month that a significant boost in teacher salaries could transform public schools for the better by luring the country's brightest college graduates into the profession.

    Teachers should be paid a starting salary of $60,000, Duncan said, with the opportunity to make up to $150,000 a year. That's higher than the salaries of most high school principals, who are generally paid much more than teachers.

    The median salary among all middle school teachers, for example, not just those starting out in the profession, is around $52,000, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

    Would paying teachers 2 to 3 times more money mean that students would learn more? We don't know. But smaller raises of 20 percent or less have been ineffective, and one New York City school that embraced much higher pay has so far underperformed on state tests.

    "It will cost money—and—given the current political climate with the nation wrestling with debt and deficits—I am sure some people will immediately say that we can't afford it without even looking at how to redirect the money we are already spending—and mis-spending," Duncan said at the at a conference sponsored by the National Board of Professional Teaching Standards.

    Duncan's office would not offer further details to The Lookout about how a school district could redirect money to teachers' salaries or whether Duncan had any specific plans to encourage such sweeping salary changes.

    But Duncan's idea has been tried on a smaller scale, which helps us to try to predict what changes a radical increase in teacher salaries nationwide might have on education.

    Zeke Vanderhoek, the founder and principal of the Equity Project, a charter school in New York City, decided to pay all of his middle school teachers $125,000 salaries because of research that shows a very good teacher can lift kids' test scores and close achievement gaps. Teachers at the school can earn up to $25,000 more in bonuses, depending on how well their students do.

    The Equity Project had to make sacrifices in order to devote more resources to teacher salaries. Its average class is larger than at other city public schools, at about 30 students, and teachers are required to serve in administrative roles so that Vanderhoek doesn't have to hire assistant principals. He also doesn't have to hire any substitute teachers: full-time teachers cover for each other's absences. The teachers work longer days and have only three weeks off during the summer, in contrast to the months-long break many teachers receive.

    Nor are the teachers in a union, because Vanderhoek says he must be able to fire teachers who aren't lifting kids' test scores.

    Duncan hinted at the same tradeoff in his speech. "If teachers are to be treated and compensated as the true professionals they are, the profession will need to shift away from an industrial-era blue-collar model of compensation to rewarding effectiveness and performance," he said. (Most public school teachers are in a union.)

    It is too early to judge the Equity Project, but it has not yet worked any miracles on its high-need student population. Gotham Schools reported that for the second year in a row, the school's students did not outperform kids in regular schools in the district on state tests.

    There is not a lot of research that shows the effect of higher pay on teacher performance, retention and satisfaction. This is in part because public school teachers are compensated fairly uniformly around the country.

    "It's very hard to find a lot of variety in order to do research on the effect of different ways of paying teachers," said Neal McCluskey, the associate director of the Center for Educational Freedom at the libertarian Cato Institute, in an interview with The Lookout.

    A few studies of programs that give teachers cash bonuses for lifting their students' test scores showed that those programs didn't work. Offering up to $15,000 to Nashville teachers did not lift students' performance, and a similar program in New York City was also shown to be a bust.

    But looking at bonuses and other forms of merit pay isn't a good way to gauge the success of an across-the-board teacher salary hike, said Brian Lewis, the interim chief executive of the National Board of Professional Teaching Standards. Teachers are paid so little in base salary that many high-achieving college graduates are not drawn to the field in the first place, Lewis told The Lookout. These students know they would be giving up significant lifetime earnings by becoming a teacher rather than entering a more lucrative profession.

    In Norway and other countries where students do significantly better than Americans on math tests, teachers are recruited from the top third of college graduates. In the United States, only 23 percent of teachers come from the top third of their class, according to a McKinsey study. (Critics of teacher-focused reforms point out that there is significantly more child poverty in the United States than in most of the countries that perform better on standardized math tests.)

    "We have a fundamental misalignment from what we're expecting of people who go into this career and the baseline salaries that we are willing to provide them," Lewis said.

    But it's possible that teachers would rather have more job security than a higher salary. When Michelle Rhee controlled Washington D.C.'s schools, she offered up to $130,000 salaries to teachers if they would give up their union's tenure and seniority rules and agree to be paid based on their students' test scores. She could not get the teachers union to accept her offer.

    Rhee eventually negotiated a slightly watered-down version of her plan, but she resigned only a few months later when the ouster of Mayor Adrian Fenty was widely seen as a rejection of her education policies.

     

    15,520 comments

    • MaryM  •  8 mths ago
      Amen.
    • thewholefnsho2  •  8 mths ago
      @ REPUBLITARION!!!!! You never replied to me. you said in Michigan teachers were making 90k avg and I showed you a link that showed teachers making under 50k avg. And you swore that you were telling the truth. I'm calling you out, LIAR!!!!!!
    • Ed Twidley  •  8 mths ago
      Where are you going to get the money to pay these teachers? The budgets won't magically expand without an increase in taxes, and I'm pretty sure people are sick to death of the taxes they already pay. With the same budget, they can employ half as many teachers but pay them twice as much... nobody in their right mind would go for that!

      Student performance has NOTHING to do with teacher performance. It has everything to do with parent performance. Idiot parents have idiot kids.
    • Bilbo Tea Baggins  •  8 mths ago
      yes, they should be paid more so they can give more donations to democrats. right now the repukes have all those rich corporations donating, and we need something to level the playing field
    • Joe Thomas  •  8 mths ago
      Yes if they qualify through testing every six months,if they pass they stay,if not they go,and dump tenure,no tenure period,and the the truth not propaganda,and dump politically correct nonsense,the truth is the truth is the truth,teach what really happened and happens ,no editing or ommitting like the left liberal media,
      • darran 8 mths ago
        what about the right radical media?
      • Jeff 8 mths ago
        What a ridiculous comment about testing teachers! Do you get tested for your job? Teachers should have performance appraisals and action plans just like someone in the business world. However, I do agree with the issue of the tenure, it needs to be dumped. If they don't improve or perform they need to be fired.
    • Stan  •  8 mths ago
      It is to my grandest surprise that everytime I requested my Father to raise my salary to an embarrasing amount that I was able to hire capable employees to cover my financial shortages and it always worked till the next fiscal year...Why I am surprised.
      • bobby 8 mths ago
        just shut up
      • darran 8 mths ago
        stan u outsmart youself"
      • Stan 8 mths ago
        fine
    • Stevie  •  8 mths ago
      Yes, if they are true educators.. Teaching should be considered a profession of specialized training. The question should be...... Should teachers starting salary be $60.000.00 or Should the parents be held responsible for teaching their own children for free......
    • Dean  •  8 mths ago
      Who taught the first Teacher

      Who taught the first engineer

      Who taught the first anything
      • JoeTheTrueProgressiveLibe ... 8 mths ago
        Motivated people taught themselves.
      • King Castle 8 mths ago
        who was the first to eat the egg from the first chicken from the first egg ?
      • SUSAN 8 mths ago
        Who cleans up after any of them. SOMEBODY has to do the dirty work.
    • Dean  •  8 mths ago
      You can not expect a student to smarter than the teacher! By that, I am refering to the Parents responsability for what a child learns in the first five years of a childes life. before they ever face a School teacher

      Parents never like to hear this but your childs first report card grades are based on what they learned at home for the first five years
      • JoeTheTrueProgressiveLibe ... 8 mths ago
        5 year olds are smarter than public school teachers. That is why kids act out. It is natural to act out against someone who is stupid that you are expected to obey.
      • David 8 mths ago
        You watch too much of Jeff Foxworthy's "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" show.
      • readertoo 8 mths ago
        Joe... You have my pity. I am sorry no one ever taught you how to be a compassionate human being that can use logic in a debate rather than insults... Reminds me of some five year olds I know. I am a teacher.
    • Lone Ranger  •  8 mths ago
      Why not? It's the cost of living that's so artificially high. 'Cause some people(plutocrats)don't want to pay their income taxes.
      • Z 8 mths ago
        And
    • 1 tired citizen  •  8 mths ago
      Why is it that almost every article I read about the problems in our public school system start out with teachers salaries? Teachers should be paid a fair wage which will allow them to live, contribute to their own benefit plans and as they get better at their jobs, receive wage increases.
    • Rymg  •  8 mths ago
      The main problem is social, an aspect of life that the capital system ignores. If Americans were taught some common respect and decency most problems would be solved. Having the American attitude of take what ever you can and trample anyone in order to do it; will lead to the collapse of the country, which you can see is happening before our eyes. Humans are taught not to be content - take more, buy more. No one has enough, raising the salary to 60K will make teachers demand 80k next year. It never ends, humans should be ashamed of their selfishness and greed.
    • Russ H  •  8 mths ago
      After reading several comments I can see many different points of view on the issue. What I did not see is the fact that many public school teachers work more than the ordinary 40 hours a week that many people have stated. They spend a lot of their own time working on grading papers, developing curriculum for the constant increases of knowledge levels, and not to mention the out of pocket expenses that teachers spend on their supplies for their students. I do believe that teachers do not make a justified salary for what they do, but I don't think 60 grand a year is realistic. I would say that 50000 is more of a target. I think that congress should have their salaries reduced from $174000.00 a year, to about half of that, because WE ALL KNOW that they sure don't deserve it. I think that teachers are a valuable asset to our children and at least one teacher has had an impact on you at some point in your life. Just saying.
    • Dean  •  8 mths ago
      You can not expect a student to smarter than the teacher! By that I am refering to the teachers responsable fo rwhat a child learns in the first five years of a childes life
    • Max  •  8 mths ago
      Postdocs are paid $22K-55K to do cutting-edge research that requires a Ph.D.
    • MyVyoo  •  8 mths ago
      But where are all the teachers supposed to get work when the engineers take their jobs?
    • lucifer osiris arnold  •  8 mths ago
      Yes
    • nhz  •  8 mths ago
      Oh, don't worry about this. It won't be much longer before all of us (that are still working, that is) will be making $9 an hour, and you'll be grateful for it as well, surf.
    • Buck  •  8 mths ago
      No.
    • M  •  8 mths ago
      Market Demand should control salaries. People are losing homes and can not afford property taxes. teachers can move to better paying districts if they want to earn more money.
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