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    Economy, not debt rating, will send markets lower

    NEW YORK (AP) — U.S. investors will have their first chance Monday to react to Standard & Poor's decision to strip the U.S. government of its top credit rating. But the bigger issues facing Wall Street and stock markets worldwide remain debt-ridden countries in Europe and concerns that the global economy is weakening.

    Friday's first-ever downgrade of U.S. long-term debt from AAA to AA+ wasn't unexpected and may have little impact on interest rates. But it's the kind of news that stock markets don't need when investors are already nervous.

    Even before the downgrade, the Dow Jones industrial average last week fell nearly 700 points, or 6 percent. Investors were worried because economic signals in the U.S. and overseas were pointing toward trouble:

    —On July 29, the government dramatically lowered its estimate of how much the economy grew during the first quarter. It had said the economy grew at an annual rate of 1.3 percent, but revised that number down to 0.4 percent. Second-quarter growth was also weak, a 1.3 percent rate.

    —European officials are trying to help Italy — the world's eighth-largest economy — avoid the kind of bailouts that Greece, Portugal and Spain were forced to accept to prevent them from defaulting on their debt. And those bailouts haven't solved all the problems in those countries.

    —The first reports on the economy during the third quarter have been mixed. Manufacturing, which helped pull the economy out of the recession, fell to its weakest level since July 2009 — the month after the recession officially ended. The Labor Department said 117,000 jobs were created last month. But that came after 99,000 jobs were created in May and June combined — and 250,000 new jobs are needed each month to reduce unemployment.

    As a result, financial analysts interviewed Sunday said they expect markets to be volatile this week — and beyond.

    "We are in unchartered territory and, therefore, should all brace for volatility over a number of days if not weeks," said Mohamed El-Erian, CEO and co-chief investment officer of the bond mutual fund company PIMCO.

    Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics, said he expected the downgrade to cause a selloff Monday. "There's a lot of fear and misunderstanding and confusion, and that all could come out in the stock and bond markets. I don't think it takes much to unnerve investors given the current environment. I think anything could drive investors to sell given how fragile sentiment is," he said.

    Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, who appeared on NBC's "Meet the Press" Sunday, expects the selling to last for some time. "It is very unlikely that (this) isn't going to take a while to bottom out," he said.

    The reason: "It depends on Europe, not the United States," Greenspan said. "The United States was actually doing relatively well, sluggish but going forward until Italy ran into trouble." He said that half of U.S. corporations operate in Europe, and that the region "has been a very important driving force in the overall earnings of U.S. corporations."

    The Dow fell 513 points on Thursday alone after concerns about Italy's problems were compounded by anxiety ahead of Friday's jobs report from the Labor Department. That report came in better than expected; the economy got 117,000 new jobs in July. But it wasn't enough to calm investors. The Dow has fallen nearly 10 percent in two weeks — a period that included the budget debate that averted a default on U.S. debt.

    Greenspan noted that S&P had "hit a nerve" with its downgrade. The ratings agency said it was lowering the U.S. rating not just because of the country's debt load, but because S&P doesn't believe Congress has the ability to resolve the country's debt problems. And it warned that another downgrade could be forthcoming.

    On Saturday, David Beers, S&P's global head of sovereign ratings, said his agency was concerned about "the degree of uncertainty about the political policy process" in Washington.

    S&P was looking for $4 trillion in budget cuts over 10 years. The deal that Congress passed on Tuesday would bring $2.1 trillion to $2.4 trillion in cuts over that time. S&P said it was also concerned about the ability of Congress to implement those cuts because of the division between Republicans and Democrats.

    "Right now, the markets don't believe anybody anywhere and the uncertainty premium is very high. Since the end of World War I, the United States has been an unquestioned AAA credit, until now," said David Kotok, chairman and chief investment officer of Cumberland Advisors.

    Prudential Financial market strategist Quincy Krosby said, "The rating is in essence an indictment of Congress and puts the president on the defensive. While both sides came up with a package that was short on the cuts that we needed, ultimately it happened on this president's watch. So, it takes on a very symbolic indictment of his ability to run the United States."

    Investors are worried about debt not only because countries and many people are overwhelmed by it. Debt is what financed economic growth for decades. Now countries and people are cutting back on debt — deleveraging is what economists call that process — and that means economic growth in the future will be slower.

    Economists had widely expected the U.S. economy to pick up in the second half of the year after its soft patch in the spring. But the stock market, which looks six to nine months ahead, doesn't see an improvement until well into 2012.

    Investors may get more insight on Tuesday, when the Federal Reserve holds a regularly scheduled meeting on the economy and interest rates. It's expected the central bank will state that interest rates will need to remain at their current low levels for at least another year.

    Even with this bleak outlook, some analysts see a chance for stocks to rise, at least in the short run.

    The stock market could recover next week if European leaders make progress in averting another debt crisis in that region, said Ryan Detrick, senior technical strategist at Schaeffer's Investment Research.

    Still, even if stocks do rise, there are so many economic and political problems to be resolved that any rally may well be very short-lived.

     

    991 comments

    • Dan  •  9 mths ago
      Thanks, Congress, for turning the U.S. into a third-world country! You deserve a 3 month vacation!
      • Richard 9 mths ago
        and, thanks Obammy, for heading up that "effort"....you've been on vacation since day one
      • Joe Average 9 mths ago
        deserve a 3 month vacation? they been on hiatus for the last 20 years! and getting paid with benefits too.
      • CarpeDiem 9 mths ago
        You forgot to thank Oblamer too.
    • RickC  •  9 mths ago
      the recession may be over in the minds of those in DC, but out here on main street USA the recession is very real and growing every day
    • mark  •  9 mths ago
      The U.S. economy is done. No manufacturing base, subsidized agriculture, overwhelming debt, and every company that can shipping everything overseas. Expensive wars everywhere we can shove troops into, foreign aid that we have to borrow to send them, a huge chunk of the workforce coming to retirement age all at the same time, and a group of parasites in Washington squabbling over who's cronies get the last of the crumbs.
      • m m 9 mths ago
        Agreed, all that's left to do is storm the gates and take over, no lawyer's need apply.
      • Yahoo Editor 9 mths ago
        Please learn to punctuate before you post again.
      • Mike 9 mths ago
        M M, what gates?? Where do we storm and once we do, then what?? Sound like you plan of attack is the same as Bush's for invading Iraq.
    • 60Sistrunk  •  9 mths ago
      I agree with Constitution Party and Mark. The economy is in shambles, Washington has its collective head where the sun don't shine, and what's worse still... Americans are still lining up to buy cheap Chinese imports, oblivious to the ramifications.
      • BigRed 9 mths ago
        You are correct. We buy cheap. Two reasons: 1) I can't FIND American products in most stores; 2) I can't afford products costing 2 or 3 times as much because I am not working anymore. And your solution is?????
      • Robert Johnson 9 mths ago
        Exactly; we did this to ourselves by believing lying politicians who told us there is a free lunch.
    • Get Back  •  9 mths ago
      Wish this was going on when I was 18. i'm too old for a revolution now.
      • Big Al 9 mths ago
        Not to worry...A good cup of coffee & I'm right there witih ya...
      • LAWTON T 9 mths ago
        Not sure how old you are, but good chance it was going on, it was sublte and concealed for instance if you were around that age say in the mid 60's look what Johnson and that congress did to us. Medicare, and all the other Great society programs they sure sounded good before it was time to pay up!
      • Big Al 9 mths ago
        You'll lnow what's in the bill after we pass it.....LMAO 57
    • Michael D  •  9 mths ago
      As long as gas prices stay at $4 and grocery inflation keeps up there will be no recovery and most all of us know this as a fact
    • Old Rusty Tulsa  •  9 mths ago
      The price of gasoline, milk, eggs and bacon, bread,all meats has gone skyrocketing up, Now tell me about the economy?The price of basic living expenses are getting higher, I dont make any more money than before, So What am I to Do?What am I going to do?just speaking for 200 million Americans.
      • jibjab1 9 mths ago
        Thats how its been going for years Buddy you can thank Bush for that. They are the ones who kept on refusing to raise the minimum wage! And look where we are now!!!!
      • NWO-NERD-BOY 9 mths ago
        buy but buddy the best fuking thing u can do is hit a tree then it make more for the rest of us hun buby
      • Robert 9 mths ago
        Over spending and printing money ( including quantitative easing) to cover it causes higher prices. Inflation is a cruel tax hitting the hardest those least able to pay it. The government inflation index does not reflect the truth. Raising the minimum wage does not solve these problems.
    • ts  •  9 mths ago
      I know I'm not working and I'm not counted as unemployed.....
    • Mike.  •  9 mths ago
      The only way I see our economy picking up is if the numerous AMERICAN manufacturing companies that are offshore come home & create jobs for AMERICANS. With 73% of our economy being consumer spending how do the powers that be expect things to pick up if every time we turn around prices are going up-just look around & pay attention.The regular working-class Americans have tightened their belts & no amount of prodding is going to get them to open their wallets as long as prices keep going up & jobs are scarce.This country is in a vicious downturn & Obama is not the answer to stopping it-Democrats AND Republicans are not the answer-WE THE PEOPLE have lost all faith in their elected officials & they know it. Say what you want & go ahead & give me thumbs down but BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE are to blame for this mess we're in....And to think,while we're all sitting here fretting over the economy,those pukes are on their 5wk "recess" now drinking their Martini's & laughing all the way to the bank.I hate them all for what they're doing to our country.
    • John  •  9 mths ago
      It wont do any good to give more tax breaks to the rich (like they wont do it anyway). The rich wont hire any Americans no matter if we give the a billion dollars a year instead of taxing them because they send all the jobs to Asia. Both Parties are owned by the rich.
    • Louis  •  9 mths ago
      Simple, You cant spend more than you bring in
    • Ricardo  •  9 mths ago
      Wake up Washington! The US economy is crashing while you bicker and ignore the economic destruction happen right under your noses.

      The American people are more angry than I've ever seen them!
    • A Yahoo! User  •  9 mths ago
      ARE YOU BETTER OF TODAY THEN YOU WHERE THREE YEARS AGO,FUCK NO
    • Hitched  •  9 mths ago
      This is only part of the plan for the destruction of america.
    • ICE Slice  •  9 mths ago
      We need to flush this turd in 2012.
    • Craig  •  9 mths ago
      I need some hope and change
    • Mark  •  9 mths ago
      this country is doomed if we continue to be led by WALL STREET and WASHINGTON, one lies the other steals.
    • DILLIGAF  •  9 mths ago
      AA+ is an inadequate rating. It needs to bottom out. Kinda like back in the depression. Crash all stock investments. Then when all these money hungry, greedy politicians and "I can't get enough money" ignorant morans that want to screw with the middle/low income people, vets, SocSec recipients, and retirees, loose all their wealth, see what they have to lean on. People pay into to these programs an entire life time, some with money, some with blood & sweat, and some with it all. That does not give some money grubbing politician the right to screw with what they rely on just because they want some more money. Start at the heart of the problem. First get the pay scales for politicians down sized to reflect the quality contribution they are giving the people. They are there to represent us, not rip us off. They draw entirely too much money. Their retirement plans are ridiculous. You have people giving life and limbs for this country, and they don't get nearly what a politician gets for only a couple of years of hanging out with the guys. And now they want to screw with that also. Quit worrying about other countries until you fix ours. Leave the middle/low income programs alone, unless you are going to increase them. Fat chance! Let's see how many more homeless you can add to the streets that you can pretend don't exist. I gave to my country, I am one of the fortunate ones to make it thru 2 wars and only lose some parts of my extremeties and I'm proud for it, but some of you so called Americans just make me puking sick.
    • Bill  •  9 mths ago
      Obamas job czar Jeff immelt CEO of General Electric has decided to close the 115 yr old Wisconsin xray plant and move it to China also spending 2 billion dollars to train the Chinese replacement workers. With Obama and a job czar like this we are screwed
    • Tom Deaver  •  9 mths ago
      Where is the realistic reporting of inflation?! The price of gas and food has skyrocketed. Why hasn't the inflation numbers? The government lies about inflation.
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