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    Erdogan presents Turkey as model for Arabs

    CAIRO (AP) — Turkey's prime minister presented his country as a model for an Arab world in turmoil, giving advice on everything from balancing secularism and Islam to challenging Israel during a high-profile visit to Egypt on Tuesday aimed at advancing his growing status as a regional leader.

    Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan received a hero's welcome among Egyptians, impressed by his tough stance against Israel and searching for firm direction in a post-revolution period that has turned muddled and confused. His celebrity stood out in even greater contrast as the head of the Arab League admitted Tuesday that the pan-Arab body was "impotent" in the face of the Middle East's uprisings.

    But the visit fueled a debate among Egyptians whether the Turkish model he touted — with an Islamic-based political party governing a secular democracy — was really applicable here.

    Many are skeptical that Egypt's powerful Muslim Brotherhood, which often cites Erdogan's party as a model and is likely to gain significant power, can accept Turkish-style secularism.

    A Brotherhood spokesman, Mahmoud Ghozlan, praised Erdogan as "a respectable leader who preserves the dignity of his country and who shares similar position with Israel." But he insisted Egyptians want an Islamic state.

    "In Turkey, when a man finds a woman in bed with another man, he can't punish her by law because it is permitted there. It means that Turkey ... violates Islamic Shariah law," he told The Associated Press.

    Erdogan has sought to leverage the Arab uprisings into greater influence for Turkey in a region where, as the seat of the Ottoman empire, it once ruled for centuries. He has grown critical of the regime in Syria, with which Turkey has close ties, for its bloody crackdown on protesters. The fall of Hosni Mubarak has opened the way for Turkey to get closer to Egypt, and Erdogan arrived with a host of officials to sign cooperation deals. On his tour, he will also visit Tunisia and Libya, where popular uprisings have ousted autocratic leaders.

    Key to Erdogan's rising popularity has been his confrontation with Israel. Once an ally of the Jewish state, Erdogan suspended military ties with Israel and expelled top Israeli diplomats in protest over its refusal to apologize over deaths during a commando raid on a Turkish flotilla trying to break the blockade of the Gaza Strip last year. He said he had hoped to visit Gaza during his tour but "circumstances did not permit."

    Brotherhood members rallied at the airport late Monday for the Turkish leader's arrival, cheering and hoisting a banner, reading "Egypt and Turkey together are one hand for the sake of the future. Erdogan is a hero." Big billboards lined up the airport road, showing Erdogan smiling with his hand on his heart.

    Erdogan met Tuesday with Field Marshal Mohammed Hossein Tantawi, Egypt's military ruler, then addressed Arab foreign ministers at the Arab League. There he sought to embody a new regional policy for Israel to moderate its behavior.

    "Israel must respect human rights and act as a normal country and then it will be liberated from its isolation," said Erdogan, interrupted several times by applause.

    He backed recognition for a Palestinian state in a U.N. vote that the Palestinian leadership is pushing for this month, saying "this is not an option but a necessity."

    In a later speech at Cairo's Opera House, he warned of increasing steps against Israel unless it compensates victims of the flotilla raid and lifts its remaining restrictions on Gaza. Israel "has lost a great chance, and ties have been lowered with Turkey, the region's biggest democracy."

    Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor refused to comment on Erdogan's comments. Israel has defended its raid on the flotilla, saying its troops were defending themselves against passengers who attacked them as they boarded. Last week, Israel expressed regret for the loss of lives and said it was time for the two countries to restore their former ties.

    As part of Erdogan's media blitz, he was interviewed on Egypt's most popular political talk show, "10 o'clock," where he defended the concept of secularism — a term tainted as "anti-Islamic" in the eyes of many Egyptians.

    "To Egyptians who view secularism as removing religion from the state, or as an infidel state, I say you are mistaken," Erdogan said. "It means respect to all religions. ... If this is implemented, the entire society will live in safety."

    "Turkish secularism respects atheists because in the end Turkey is a state that believes in the rule of law," he said.

    Since Mubarak's fall on Feb. 11, Egypt has seen its revolution turn chaotic on multiple fronts. Anger at Israel burst into a riot last weekend outside the Israeli Embassy during which protesters broke in and threw documents into the street. There are growing worries over the power of the Brotherhood, which stands to gain in upcoming elections, and growing criticism of the military's muddled handling of the transition.

    Amr Shobaki, a columnist in the independent daily Al-Masry Al-Youm, wrote that while Egypt can't copy Turkey, it should be "inspired" by its experience. "Erdogan doesn't call secularists extremists in Turkey," he said. "He hasn't called on Turkish women to put on the veil."

    On Israel, "Turkey had the guts to take a real decision despite its consequences, like expelling the ambassador, but it didn't storm an embassy and throw its papers in the air."

    But Nabil Abdel-Fattah, at the Al-Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies, said Egypt's Brotherhood won't follow the example of Erdogan's Justice and Development Party, which has avoided pushing a religious agenda to focus on building the economy.

    "The Muslim Brotherhood is trying is to put on an Erdogan mask ... to reassure liberal sectors in Egyptian society," he said. "The Muslim Brotherhood opposes secularism and hates to hear Erdogan talking" of one.

    ____

    Associated Press writer Aya Batrawy in Cairo contributed to this report.

     

    214 comments

    • true justice  •  8 mths ago
      ardogan will be remembered in the history as the destroyer of modern turkey - because of him turkey rejected from the EU soon he will be rejected from Nato - by joining to radical muslim regimes turkey willl slip back to a primitive poor country.
      the only hope now for the turks is the army - maybe maybe they will remove him from power and re-build turkey as a modern secular country.
    • true justice  •  8 mths ago
      ardogan speach in cairo was his biggest mistake and last mistake - form now he has only one way to go - down !!! the turkinsh military will remove him from power very soon.
      • cuneyt 8 mths ago
        this is beyond erdogan, and turks know it well. army #$%$ knows it well
      • Levent 8 mths ago
        true justice ,all you do is just bullshiting non of your words ar valuable to really care...
      • true justice 8 mths ago
        Levent - it hurt ???? and if no value why you answer ??? and why 6 thubs up ????
    • Pam  •  8 mths ago
      Why can't I find the origin and meaning of the name Erdogan?

      It looks like the letters have been rearranged eDragon
      • Oz 8 mths ago
        Pam you can't find it because it's the combination of two words. Er means "man, soldier" and dogan means "born" which means born as a man/soldier when united. This is his family name.
      • web 8 mths ago
        Oz you mean: born Jihadist or born terrorist !!!
    • Cherish  •  8 mths ago
      Of course Turkey is a model democracy for the arabs and non arabs in the middle east...If Not Who then saudi arabia???Or Iran? Or syria? Or UAE? Or Jordan? Or Egypt? Or Iraq? ...Democracy and freedom is not a gift given...it is earned!..When you have rulers and mullahs, sultans ruling the country it is not easy for people to ask for their basic rights! Thats why some arab countries do not like Turkey!
    • VOLKAN  •  8 mths ago
      Turks never trust an Arbic Countries. But this man going backward in this Modern ERA.
      Trouble is near future for Turkiye.
    • Sam  •  8 mths ago
      Erdogan is not a fan of democracy or neither secular state. Hundreds of journalists, secular opposition leaders,army generals are in jail for senseless accusations waiting over 3 years. Turkey used to be more secular, more democratic before him. While he is staging a show against Israel for popular vote, he makes biggest commercial deals with them behind the doors. There is a chance for Arabs to be democratic-secular state, but I have no hope for that.
    • Jamil Baroody  •  8 mths ago
      Translation: You Arabs come back under the wings of the Neo Ottoman Empire. We are both Foreigners to the region. Together we can make oppression and genocide of True Natives more effective. MIDDLE EAST REAL NATIVES LIBERATION FROM ISLAM, TURKS & ARABS ORGANIZATION
      • Sam 8 mths ago
        Neo Ottoman Empire? Did you invent that? Turks and Arabs are not best friends FYI.
      • Jamil Baroody 8 mths ago
        You must not have a sense of humor but these are exactly Erdogan's intentions.
    • FREDERICK2660  •  8 mths ago
      ##34934.09/14/11
      Erdogan presents Turkey as model for Arabs

      Have Turks been treating the Arabs too long
      As if they're chattels which to them belong;
      Forget the Ottoman rule wish them to;
      Ignore the centuries that they went through;
      See not the evil in such still were wrong.

      © 2011, Frederick2660
      All Rights Reserved
    • joses  •  8 mths ago
      So Turkey is posturing to be big brother it all it's arab neighbors..aah how sweet.. However, Turkey you are starting something you will regret for a long time, this gives an opportunity for the extreme muslim in the country to rise and possibly topple the current government. Muslims can anyone understand them.... Be careful what you wish for Turkey....
    • Murat  •  8 mths ago
      How can Turkey be a model? Ottoman Empire was mostly a European state, it had institutions, and it had Ataturk! Problem witn Arabs is how they have been divided up along sectarian and tribal lines, rendered ineffective and suppliant. Nation-state model, which has been so successful for so many, including Turks, has completely bypassed them. Islam was/is the antithesis of nationalism.
    • web  •  8 mths ago
      ..the turks have a model ...!!

      Armenians, Assyrians, Copts, Maronites, Hungarians, Serbs, Wallachians, Bulgars, Greeks, Greek Cypriots,..... know quite well this model.....

      Here are 2 examples of the practical application of the optimum turkish model as documented by 2 Eyewitnesses:

      1- American journalist and war correspondent working for the New York Herald and the London Daily News, Januarius McGahan, who first described the Turkish atrocities in Batak Massacre, Bulgaria, 1876, gives eye-witness account of the aftermath some two months following the events. Here is an excerpt of his complete work "The Turkish "Atrocities in Bulgaria, letters" :

      “....And now we begin to approach the church and the school- house. The ground is covered here with skeletons, to which are clinging articles of clothing and bits of putrid flesh; the air is heavy with a faint sickening odour, that grows stronger as we advance. It is beginning to be horrible. The school is on one side of the road, the church on the other. The schoolhouse, to, judge by the walls that are in part standing, was a fine large building, capable of accommodating two or three hundred children. Beneath the stones and rubbish that cover the floor to the height of several feet, are the bones and ashes of 200 women and children burnt alive between those four walls. Just beside the schoolhouse is a broad shallow pit. Here were buried a hundred bodies two weeks after the massacre. But the dogs uncovered them in part. The water flowed in, and now it lies there a horrid cesspool, with human remains floating about or lying half exposed in the mud. Near by, on the banks of the little stream that runs through the village, is a sawmill. The wheel-pit beneath is full of dead bodies floating in the water. The banks of this stream were at one time literally covered with corpses of men and women, young girls and children, that lay there festering in the sun, and eaten by dogs. ......”

      2- The next excerpt concentrates on the Armenian massacres reported by G.W.E. Russell , Published in the "Dunstable Borough Gazette", March 10, 1897
      "...The first report giving an account of the Sassoun massacres, which commenced in August 1894 stated that altogether 25 villages had been destroyed. The Turkish troops had showed themselves in the district saying they were there to protect the villagers. The villagers let them lodge with them for the night in the villages and during the night the troops arose slaughtered all the people, men, women and children. In another place a large number of leading men, headed by the priest, went out to meet the Turkish commanding officer, taking their taxes in their hands as proof of their loyalty and begging for mercy, they were surrounded and killed to a man. A number of young men! were seized, bound hand and foot, laid out in a row, had brushwood piled upon them and were burnt to death. The people of another village had fled to a secret grotto, where they remained until the weaker died of hunger. The remainder were later discovered by the Turkish soldiers and put to the bayonet. Sixty young women and girls were driven into a church, and then the soldiers were ordered to do as they liked with them and afterwards kill them. Some of the prettier women were invited to accept Islam and marry Turks; they refused and were killed. Many of the terrified inhabitants hid themselves in deep wells and when they were discovered, the soldiers fired down upon them, then getting tired of that means of extermination they saturated matting with kerosene and ignited it, then threw it down the wells. Ripping open women and tearing children to pieces by main force were among the barbarities recorded. ...."

      ...the turkish Model for the believers !!!
      • Sam 8 mths ago
        If you believe everything the media reporting, I bet you believed the Saddam had nuclear weapons. Try to look at the other side of the coin.
    • Joe  •  8 mths ago
      Turkey has a girls army!
    • VOLKAN  •  8 mths ago
      An oter backward man. Turkiye is very very Modern Country. You can go to Gay, Lesbian bars disco s to 4 am. Night clubs bars and nude beach. etc.

      I think this man will distroy Turkiye .will bring Turkiye back to thousand years .

      What they say; History repeat its self. What goes around comes around.
    • web  •  8 mths ago
      An open letter to the Egyptian islamists ...

      be happy...now you have at hand the best ethnic cleansing models of massacres, robbery, rape crimes, child molestation , burning of churches, humiliation, enslaving, human slaughtering, torturing, sodomy, masochism ..etc

      As you see, it is simple but optimum to get rid of all the Copts, the recipe is already standarized according to the Koran and Sharia particularly in Cele Kula and proved to be in concordance with the Islamic teachings, but just a la Turk !!

      finally you have your a Trinitarian formula like the crusaders...the non believer pigs and dogs.. the Kafirs....the infidels...

      Invoke or murmur the saint formula every moment and dissolve your heart and spirit with craving in its meaning, here IT IS :

      " Models, Benediction and 72 Huris are given in name of Erdogan, Mohammad and Allah..the helpers and protectors".

      ..continue the Job of rebuilding the Califate as long as you behave within the context of Islam......it is a la carte after all....use the Jizya collected from the american and european public taxpayers for your Jihad !! Amen !
    • Robert  •  8 mths ago
      People need to look at Turkey for supporting a realistic democratic, pluralistic regime. The Sharia Law creeps are uneducated perverts in a society that is far ahead of them and which ridicules the imams hatred for Copts, Shiites, Maronites, Druze, etc. Turkey should have a plan for 'nation-building' that includes the founding principles of secular law and Islamic features that can help develop a country rather than send it backwards as has happened in Iran. Please, Turkey, pick up the leadership and show the way forward.
    • KA  •  8 mths ago
      Yeah, a model of doing massacres and denying doing them? And because we are a needed ally for West, they don't admit it openly as well. Great model!
    • A Yahoo! User  •  8 mths ago
      What a dumb turkish #$%$ !!
    • jimm  •  8 mths ago
      Up to date, Sharia law is the biggest threat to humanity!
    • Alp  •  8 mths ago
      also as a american and a turk i must say that we as a country must first look in the mirror and look the killings we have participated, starting with the killings of native americans, hiroshima bombing, vietnam war, korean war, iraq/afghanistan war...the total killings that have been committed are MUCH MUCH greater then the "so-called" genocide.
    • Alp  •  8 mths ago
      the very first time the armenian's blamed the turkish government of "so-called" genocide was at 1954, did they forget about it for 40 years...This is a propaganda that the armenian lobby makes against the turkish government to gain land from them...At the time of the war with Russia, the Ottoman Empire got the 10,000 armenians on there side, however the Armenian's stabbed the Ottomans in the back attacking villages at cities like Adana, Urfa, Maras, Van killing innocent women and children. Close to 500.000 turks died...It has been said that Armenian soldiers threw babys on the tip of their spears on their rifles...In result of these attacks and attacks by rebelion armenian groups the Ottoman Government decided to send majority of armenians back to their homeland, in return they would get the turks that lived in armenia. At this long migration procedure the soldiers that escorted the people brought water, milk and bread to feed the women and children. On the way back home, people died from natural causes, there would be snow storms...
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