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    Failed Mideast peace talks moving ball to UN court

    \ JERUSALEM (AP) — The Middle East conflict faces a critical diplomatic moment this month with the Palestinians apparently sticking to their plan to ask the U.N. to recognize their state, a plan condemned by Israel, the U.S. and others as a unilateral act that should be set aside in favor of resuming peace talks.

    The widespread feeling among Palestinians is that they are running out of options, given that two decades of on-and-off talks have not yielded an independent state, while the number of Jews living on occupied territory has more than doubled.

    Israelis maintain that the Palestinians have not yet internalized Israel's existence, and that in exchange for statehood they should be willing to be more flexible than they have been to date in peace talks.

    The Palestinians may turn to the U.N. Security Council, where their plea for full membership probably would be vetoed by the U.S.

    But they also could ask the General Assembly for the in-between status of nonmember observer state, the same status as the Vatican's. That probably would be backed by a majority of the 193 member states, and while this would be a morale boost it is not a state on the ground, and some Palestinians might be disappointed.

    If this particular ball should end up in the U.N.'s court, it would be a sharp reminder of the failure of decades of diplomacy in which the U.S. played the leading role. Why has it come to this?

    One reason may be practical: each side's maximal set of concessions seems to fall short of the other's minimal demands. Previous Israeli governments have presented plans they considered reasonable, and included the ceding of close to all the land the Palestinians seek; yet the gaps, especially on Jerusalem and refugees, simply could not be bridged.

    Another reason may prove to be deeper: The dueling narratives born of a psychological chasm dating back to 1948, the year Israel became a state and Jews and Arabs began to see reality through vastly different filters, at times using separate vocabularies altogether.

    In Israel's narrative, the fighting that broke out that May was the "War of Independence," in which Jews — outnumbered and outgunned, many fresh out of the Holocaust — pluckily fended off invading Arab armies, carving out a modern state on their biblical homeland.

    To the Palestinians, 1948 is the "naqba" — the catastrophe — when they were stripped of their ancestral land and turned into refugees by modern-day Crusaders.

    This inability to agree on what happened 63 years ago lies at the core of the inability to agree on the future, and the narratives have kept diverging. While both societies are divided and multifaceted, on certain key threads they find wide internal consensus.

    Here is how it breaks down:

    BORDERS

    PALESTINIANS: They want to build their state in the West Bank and Gaza, parts of pre-1948 Palestine which were ruled by Jordan and Egypt respectively until Israel seized them in the 1967 war. Together they comprise less than a third of former Palestine and less than the land earmarked for their state by the 1947 U.N. partition plan. In exchange for recognizing the loss of the majority of Palestine, they apparently will not give up another inch, demanding that for any part of the West Bank Israel might ultimately keep, equivalent land from today's Israel must be ceded in compensation.

    ISRAELIS: Many Israelis view the West Bank as their biblical heartland, or at least as strategically precious because it overlooks their main cities. At its narrowest point, Israel is a morning's jog from Mediterranean to West Bank border. From the West Bank, Israel's main airport is in easy missile range. Underlying the Israelis' view is a sense that with more than 20 Arab states already in existence the needs of the one Jewish state should reasonably be considered paramount.

    ___

    SETTLEMENTS

    PALESTINIANS: They are in wide consensus that the 300,000 Jews who live in settlements built by Israel inside the West Bank are essentially usurpers, illegally and disproportionately exploiting land and water resources in violation of Geneva Conventions which forbid colonization of occupied land. They want the settlers gone, though they seem open to minor land swaps to allow Israel to keep settlements near the 1967 lines, where many of the settlers live.

    ISRAELIS: Official Israel rejects the applicability of the Geneva Conventions, arguing that there is a sovereignty vacuum in the West Bank because there was never an independent Palestine and all previous rulers — from Ottoman Turkey to Britain to Jordan — have abrogated any claim. They say the settlements are up for negotiation and should not cause so much anger since Israel has proven willing to dismantle settlements — first when completing its return of the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt in 1982, and again in 2005 when they pulled out of Gaza.

    ___

    JERUSALEM

    ISRAELIS: Israel captured the eastern sector, including the Old City with its Muslim, Jewish and Christian shrines, in 1967. It expanded the municipal border to include part of the adjacent West Bank, annexing the new sections and filling them with Jewish "neighborhoods" to the point where redivision would be a logistical and practical challenge of, well, biblical proportions. Only recently have Israelis truly grasped the seriousness of the Palestinian demands in Jerusalem, after years of assiduously referencing the "unified" city as "Israel's eternal capital." The current government still uses that language, and although there is now some willingness to speak of ceding "Arab neighborhoods" and "Muslim and Christian holy sites," there is a sense that this means enclaves inside a largely Israeli city.

    PALESTINIANS: The Palestinians regard the eastern sector as theirs by right. Like the rest of the world they do not recognize the Israeli annexations. They view the 250,000 Jews in east Jerusalem as "settlers" who live in "settlements" within the city, not "neighborhoods." They have shown some willingness in talks to cede some of these, including the Jewish quarter of the Old City, but, it seems, as pockets within a Palestinian capital. They share one thing with the Israelis: little practical notion of how to divide, share or secure such a deeply intertwined city among two peoples with a recent history of serious violence.

    REFUGEES

    PALESTINIANS: The Palestinians apply the term not to just the original 700,000 of 1948 but to some 4-5 million descendants. Many live in shanty towns in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan, as well as Gaza and the West Bank, universally dubbed "refugee camps." They demand recognition of their "right of return" to what is now Israel, even if their old homes and villages in many cases no longer exist. Quietly, Palestinian negotiators have assured Israeli skeptics that there will be no mass return and that arrangements to restrict the return to symbolic numbers might be made. Yet politically it is a hugely charged issue.

    ISRAELIS: It took decades for Israelis to widely accept that the displaced did not all "flee" — that at least half were expelled — and that it was wishful thinking to expect they would ever simply blend into the wider Arab world. Still, Israelis generally have no patience for the "right of return," noting the world is full of resettled refugees, including 800,000 Jews who left Arab countries for Israel in its early years, many under great duress. In their view, a Palestinian "right of return" would eliminate the country's character as a Jewish state — a nonstarter considering that it is to preserve the Jewishness of Israel that many are willing to cede the valuable West Bank. Many Israelis were genuinely surprised when this emerged in 2000 as a deal-breaker. With only 6 million Jews in Israel, the demographics make this a red line for Israelis. They are hoping resettlement in a future Palestine, or compensation, will satisfy the descendants of refugees.

    ___

    JEWISH STATE

    ISRAELIS: For the Israelis this is the essence: to have a nation-state as much for the Jews as Ireland is for the Irish. While it is true that Israel always will have a large Arab minority — it currently is about a fifth of the population — they would have equal civil rights as individuals, but not separate national rights. The Jewish character of the state is enshrined in matters great and small, from the flag to the lyrics of the anthem to automatic Israeli citizenship for any Jew requesting it.

    PALESTINIANS: Palestinians bristle at the "Jewish nation" label, arguing that it is an outdated affront that renders some 1.5 million Arabs second-class citizens. Along with some leftist Israelis, they want to redefine the country as a "state of all its citizens," and where needed change symbols and policies accordingly. Increasingly, some Palestinians actually seem content to avoid partition altogether and let Israel and the West Bank, and maybe Gaza, stay joined at the hip with roughly equal numbers of Jews and Arabs, they reason, such a tormented hybrid entity hardly would be a "Jewish state."

     

    339 comments

    • witkenbay  •  8 mths ago
      Curiously why do these articles always come out of Israel ....
    • witkenbay  •  8 mths ago
      From an outsiders view Israeli's incredible military power dominates the middle-east making it easy for them to do what ever pleases them and then pretends to be the victim...I still don't understand why The United States doesn't function as a honest mediator instead of acting like a mother protecting their monster bully kid in all issues....
    • Life Gaza  •  8 mths ago
      The main Zionist claim is that they have a supreme right to some of Palestinian territory because they lived there thousands of years ago. Let’s examine the core and real nature of this claim.

      Firstly, this claim is mistaken and selfish in its core concept because Zionists fail to recognize that history is a continuum and that there were other people living in majority in Palestine before the Jews and also after the Jews. Zionists simply cut history at a convenient point for them and claim ancestral ties to the land as of that convenient point.

      Secondly, whatever the claim, it is beyond absurd to try to shape modern world based on thousands of years old maps. Imagine if the rest of the world would be reshaped by who was on the land thousands of years ago. It would cause horrific wars, countless refugees, and unimaginable human suffering, exactly what is happening in Palestine.

      Thirdly and most disturbing, Zionist goal was to establish a Jewish state wherever possible. Palestine may have been a preference, but Palestine was not the only location that Zionists planned as their state in modern times. Another location was Argentina where Jews have been migrating for hundreds of years for the purpose of establishing a state. Also, locations in Europe were on the list and that’s why the Catholic Church was killing/expelling Jews since Roman times (read the history of the Holly Inquisition). Whatever the location, Zionist plan was to simply occupy the people living on the land even if that would mean imposing a regime worst than Nazi Germany’s from which they escaped. And Zionists would just use a different ideological coloring than the one used in Palestine in the attempt to rationalize the occupation.

      In conclusion, the main claim on which the Zionist regime is built in Palestine is erroneous, selfish, and a lie. I am categorically against generalizing, and recognize that many Jews are against the crimes the Zionist regime is committing and that many Jews are leading the global resistance to it. They should be proud.
    • Griffin Fox  •  8 mths ago
      Imagine in the current time if France would want to create its own state in Michigan and separate it from the U.S. French are a minority in Michigan so democratic vote on the separation would not work because they would be outvoted by the rest of the Americans living in Michigan. So imagine if they had a historic opportunity when the U.S. is at its weakest and militarily occupy a part of Michigan and impose a regime where only French can vote and all the others who lived there cannot. Furthermore, the occupiers rename the occupied part of Michigan as the “French State” where not only that Americans are not welcome, but they are systematically expelled over time creating huge refugee camps in nearby states of Indiana and Ohio. Imagine then that at that point in history the artificial organization called the United Nations is full of French supporters and somehow that makes the occupation “legal” and Americans who fight for their homes in the occupied part of Michigan are labeled as terrorists. The occupation is a part of a careful log-term plan (i.e. Zionism) of acquiring land by French, so literally days after the occupation is implemented (what a coordinated plan!) the occupiers import millions of other French from all over the world to increase their population in Michigan from around 100,000 to over 5 Million in a short period. Then Americans resist and fight to regain the occupied part of Michigan, but Russia steps in, sends weapons, cash, and everything else the occupiers need to sustain the occupation.

      What do you think all of us Americans would feel? We would hate French first, and then all of their supporters (Russia in this analogy) that make the occupation of our land possible. Still questioning yourself why people in the Middle East and other parts of the world do not like us? Because our Zionist controlled government, not the people, supported the very exact scenario as described above against our will and with our tax money making us accomplices in this unspeakable crime. The scenario that would outrage all of us Americans and make us fight against it if it happened in Michigan or anywhere else in the U.S.

      This comment is not intended to make derogatory remarks about France and Russia. It is merely used as an example of how Americans would be outraged and fight back in the same situation as the forced establishment of the Zionist regime and its occupation of Palestine.
      Urge your state representatives and senators to immediately stop any remaining support for the Zionist regime. Much of the support already stopped because of the increasing pressure on this issue, but we Americans need to completely distance ourselves from this oppressive regime and start actively opposing it.
    • Peaceful  •  8 mths ago
      The only solution for a lasting peace is absolute democratic process (that we Americans cherish so passionately) for the entire territory in question, otherwise, the peace will not last. All people who lived there without regard to religion, race, etc. should vote on how they would like their one country to be run. I favor one state solution because two states would only attempt to “legalize” Zionist occupation that will be remembered in history until it is corrected by future large scale conflicts, so no lasting peace will result.
      The only issue with the fair democratic process is what to do with all manipulated Jewish people who the Zionist regime imported for decades to increase the Jewish population from around 100,000 to over 5 Million since the start of the occupation. This is obviously an attempt to unjustly manipulate any future democratic process by forcefully increasing the occupier’s population at the expense of others. Any compromise other than the absolute fair democratic process with no manipulated population will be temporary with terrible conflicts looming to correct it in the future.
      The truth is that the Zionist regime will not accept any democratic process even if the manipulated Jewish population is included because it cannot exist as a democratic country as Zionists will be outvoted by all others who live there (Zionists were in an infinite minority before the occupation). The Zionist regime can only temporarily exist through the force of its arms as a one people country where only select ones can vote and where different laws apply to different people.
      The world must stand up against the Zionist regime by cutting all diplomatic and economic relations with it. Many countries have already stopped all relations with the Zionist regime and others are in the process of doing the same. We Americans need to completely distance ourselves from this oppressive regime through urging our state representatives and senators to do what the rest of the world is doing.
    • David  •  8 mths ago
      Stop the False Posts has it right - Palestinians (and all Arabs) have NO peaceful intent, their repeatedly stated intention is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, that they have no right to exist. The two state land for peace is a false premise, there is no intent by Arab or Muslim to sincerely offer peace to the Jews. Beyond the falseness of this premise, there is an ancient and Biblical one, God Jehovah gave the land to Israel, and the book of Joel warns judgment against those who divide His land. Israel has an ancient claim to the land, and the Palestinians are a nomadic race of people with no roots. The truth is that the Palestinians have gained from Israel owning their land, all have prospered. It takes a distorted mind, Dirg, to regard the Paelstinians as rational and that Israel wants to have it all - they want existence in peace - Dirg, the Arabs have initiated the attacks. And Ray, the "fake Jews" from Germany is a counterfeit recreation of actual history, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are historical persons whose lives are recored for centuries in pagan historical accounts. Let's at least speak from factual truth.
    • Dirg  •  8 mths ago
      I think the Palestines sound more rational and have legitimate concerns - and that Israel just wants to have it all.....like a spoiled brat protected by the parents - the United States.
      • Veritas Anon 8 mths ago
        Dirk your opinion means nothing. I totally disagree with your first two words. YOU DON'T THINK.
    • RAY  •  8 mths ago
      The fake jews should resettle back to Germany and the hills of eastern europe where they came from.
      • Veritas Anon 8 mths ago
        The Fakestinian squatter Arabs need to leave the Jew lands. These Muslim sleaze land grabbers are soiling this land with their filthy ways.
    • Yannis  •  8 mths ago
      Technically speaking; Book of K. is right.
      After the WWII, the whole region belonged to Transjordan and was rulled by King Abdullah.
      • Veritas Anon 8 mths ago
        Wrong but nice try. Might want to mention that the King was from Saudi and in that, was a foreigner. Jordan was all that he ruled officially under British charge.
    • redman1974  •  8 mths ago
      As I stated in another post, you can squarely blame the US Government and AIPAC for this. Only our government thinks a two decades long process should continue. Take it to the UN, give the Palestinians access to the international criminal courts. And then maybe something will change, when Sanctions and arrest warrants are issued.

      Then and then maybe, the US government can worry about Americans, and our economy. And we can forget about a bunch of rich US Jews who have hijacked (no pun intended) our foreign policy for decades.
    • Yannis  •  8 mths ago
      " For the Israelis this is the essence: to have a nation-state as much for the Jews as Ireland is for the Irish." This statement is highly nationalistic and reeks like the old Nazism, apartheidism and colonialism. It also does not reflect the actuality of Ireland. (In Irish passport under the line "nationality/ citizenship" is Irish and not Irish citizenship and German national)
      For Israel to survive, she must change the charter to treat all citizens of Israel as Israelis, regardles of their origin or creed.
      Only then she can request and enforce loyality to the state.
      • Dirg 8 mths ago
        Plus - in Ireland, they can be catholic, lutheran, or atheist.....and still be Ireland. In Israel, they base it on one religion, and you are a second class person if you're not jewish.....big differences.
      • Veritas Anon 8 mths ago
        Silly dullard - apartheid is centered in SAUDI ARABIA which is also the heart of Islam. Take your swine talk and save it for other Qu'ran loving heathens.
    • A Yahoo! User  •  8 mths ago
      Paul
      And you stink . If you have nothing to comment just get of this page you are a loss of space
      you inbred Hillbilly ..
      This from a non Jew or JOO like you say
      • NASCAR 8 mths ago
        Zionist suck!!!
    • Pook  •  8 mths ago
      joos smell
    • Book of Knowledge  •  8 mths ago
      There are no 1967 borders. There are 1949 Armistice lines with Jordan. Since Jordan did not want the West Bank, there is no occupied territory
    • Freedom  •  8 mths ago
      All Jewish settlements in territories occupied in the 1967 war are a direct violation of the Geneva Conventions, which Israel has signed.
      “The Geneva Convention requires an occupying power to change the existing order as little as possible during its tenure. One aspect of this obligation is that it must leave the territory to the people it finds there. It may not bring its own people to populate the territory. This prohibition is found in the convention’s Article 49, which states, ‘The occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.’” John Quigley, “Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice
    • Freedom  •  8 mths ago
      Since 1967, there has been only one workable solution to the conflict. The plan is articulated in U.N. Security Council Resolution 242, which sets up a two-part ‘land for peace’ solution. Part one holds that Israel must withdraw from the territories occupied in 1967. Part two calls for all states in the region to live in peace and security in those borders. The Israeli obligation, withdrawal from the occupied territories, is utterly unfulfilled.” Hussein Ibish, communications director of the American-Arab Anti Discrimination Committee, in the Los Angeles Times, October 18, 2000.
    • Freedom  •  8 mths ago
      ZioNazis do not want talks with Palestinians, Iran or anybody else; they want Iran the same way they wanted Iraq, Palestine Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and all the rest. Iran does not have nuclear weapons nor does it want nuclear weapons in the Middle East. None of the countries aside from the apartheid church state of welfare want nuclear weapons. By now we all know the ZioNazis are using the non existent Iranian weapons as a ploy to attack Iran much like it used the aluminum tubes, WMD, smoking guns, they'll be waiting with open arms and all the other lies to attack Iraq. Only when the taxpayers of the USA throw the Zionists out of Washington DC will there be peace in the world.
    • Pook  •  8 mths ago
      joos want the usa to defund the un- a threat against the un standing up to the joos. joos are worst than the muzzies
    • Pook  •  8 mths ago
      joos only care about joos not about anyone else as everyone else is sub human
    • Pook  •  8 mths ago
      joos are always dual citizens but never can be 100% loyal to america.
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