Fining students for untied shoelaces: Harassment or discipline?

The school accomplishes its goals by adhering to strict (but fair) rules and routines. Kids not wanting to follow those rules are more than welcome to leave the school. There is a long waiting list. Parents of these schools back up the SCHOOLS when their kids get in trouble. Not their kids. They realize the benefits and want to keep their kids there. The kids also "get" why they are better off than most inner city school kids and they want to stay there too. It's fair, it's just, it's reasonable. It teaches them discipline and self control. Virtually all their graduates are successful and accomplished in their adult lives.

The kids know the rules when they go to the school. If they break the rules they have to suffer the consequences. Don't want to spend the money or can't afford it? Hey, then don't break the rules. Somebody needs to teach children morals and discipline today. They certainly don't learn it from their parents and certainly don't learn it by watching the leaders of our country.

The parents cannot afford the fine? Hello, tell your kids to stop breaking the rules and there won't be any charge. How lucky these kids are to go to a good school, if following rules and discipline is all they have to do, that is a small price to pay.

How gullabe and naive some people are, I work in a juvenile corrections facility and we enforse many dress codes concerning shoes because variations are gang symbols, such as the tounge of sneaker out and in front of the pants leg, the lace pattern of the strings, etc. Gang affilition is a huge problem with black and latino youth and our organization works hard to eliminate that like this school is trying to do.

Get caught breaking the rules and having consequences for that is not a bad thing to teach our youth.
I have issues with soemone who thinks its ok to let our youth think its ok to ignore rules if teye feel they are minor or stupid. That may be the reason most of the youth of today seem to act like they have immunity to most of the laws.

I admit a divided mind on this. I went to school at a time when corporeal punishment was allowed in public schools and swats were not uncommon for tardiness, sass and just because the coach didn't like you.

A friend of mine didn't shave for a week one time, which at high school was barely noticeable, but his chin shadow annoyed the boys' vice principal who made him dry shave with a dull razor. One teacher was particularly fond of banging heads against metal lockers saying he liked the sound it made.

Cruel and unnecessary? Probably but we didn't have too many problems and none of us were the worse for it. When my son was in high school I was surprised at the lack of discipline and inability to control the students. So given a reluctance to bang heads perhaps a fine is the answer. Unfortunately with hormone addled teenagers coercion is sometimes not just the only means to an end it's often the best means.

The parents aren't enforcing discipline, so somebody needs to. When the parents get tired enough of paying the fines then they'll make their kids be disciplined enough to not get fined. Heeding basic rules of proper dress and curtesy isn't that difficult.

So, if we assume the $190,000 (!) in funds came exclusively from detention fees...
That's 38,000 instances of detention. What the hell kind of discipline problems are they having in these schools?

When I was in 8th grade I wore a silk shirt to school one day. One of the buttons kept coming loose. One of the male teachers went on a crusade to eliminate unbuttoned shirts with a pair of sizors. He cut the button off my shirt taking about a square inch of fabric in the process. My mother raised HeII with the principal but I don't know what the results were.

Failure to follow rules at school, and failure to follow directives in the workplace, have consequences. Not a bad lesson to learn, considering the realities awaiting them after graduation. Doesn't sound too harsh. Might be a bit unreasonable. But many employers can be that way too.

It's a charter school, which means students CHOOSE to go there. If the school overreaches, then students will CHOOSE to go elsewhere. It's only harassment if the student was required to be at that school.

Noble doesn't have fines. They have a $5 fee for a three hour detention. And a $140 fee for summer school for kids who accumulate many detentions. The amount collected each year is only a small fraction of the staffing cost of discpline. Who should pay for the kids who choose to not follow the rules?

excellent practice. maybe parents can help enforce it then they won't have to pay. tying shoelaces is for safety, it's not harassment.

If the parents did their jobs and taught their children to be responsible, the school wouldn't have to act on these violations.

Part of the education system should be training in good order and personal discipline. If a educated youth cannot get and hold a job, why bother teaching anything. Slobs don't keep jobs unless they are doing the boss.

The reason the public schools are failing is lack of discipline. It's become a day care dump and a free lunch.

3000 students on the waiting list and growing. The parents have decided where they want their kids.

Detention for having untied shoelaces or an unbuttoned shirt? Seriously?

And don't tell me you never found a shoelace or button come undone when you were a kid, or adults for that matter. This sounds like abuse.

"In part, the cash went toward defraying the cost of having to pay teachers to supervise the detention hall."

In part....in whose pocket did the other part go? The only thing the Noble CEO Milkie is worried about is making money, like all CEOs.

So I really have to wonder how much of this is to teach kids a lesson?

I would have a problem with the school if my kid was forced to serve detention ($5) for untied shoe laces and/or other minor infractions.

This is a great way for children to learn life in the US.
You don't have freedom, you rent it.
At every turn gouged for taxes, fees, licenses, penalties, fines, for every imaginable activity.