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    Occupy protest rekindles debate about flag-burning

    OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — Many in the crowd outside Oakland City Hall shouted "Burn it! Burn it!" as masked protesters readied to set fire to an American flag. That's when a woman emerged from the scrum, screaming for them to stop, that it would hurt the cause.

    Moments later, the flames began, and suddenly a movement that seemingly vanished weeks ago was back in the spotlight, this time for an act of protest that has long divided the nation and now the movement itself.

    The images of the flag-burning went viral in the hours after Saturday's demonstrations on Oakland's streets, with Occupy supporters denouncing the act as unpatriotic and a black mark on the movement. Others called it justified.

    The flag-burning, however, raised questions about whether the act will tarnish a movement of largely peaceful protests and alienate people who agree with its message against corporate excess and economic inequality.

    "I'm quite confident that the general view is that violence of this sort — whether it's symbolic or otherwise — is contrary to the spirit of the movement and should be renounced," Columbia University sociologist Todd Gitlin said.

    Gitlin, who is writing a book about the movement, noted that flags have had a prominent place at the Occupy Wall Street encampments that sprang up last fall. They are typically pinned to tents or waving from wooden flagpoles.

    "I was thinking how they have come to embrace the American flag as a hallmark of this movement; it's very common to see American flags honored and elevated at these encampments," he said.

    Flag-burning has been a powerful symbol since the days of the anti-Vietnam War movement. Congress at the time passed a law to protect the flag in 1968, and most states followed suit.

    In 1989, the U.S. Supreme Court decided such laws were unconstitutional restrictions on free speech. The court's decision set off a move in Congress to pass a constitutional amendment to prohibit desecration of the flag. An attempt in 2006 failed by only one vote in the Senate.

    In Oakland, social activism and civic unrest have long marked the rough-edged city across the bay from San Francisco. Beset by poverty, crime and a decades-long tense relationship between the police and residents, its streets have seen many clashes, including anti-draft protests in the 1960s that spilled into town from neighboring Berkeley.

    At Occupy Oakland, flag-burning is nothing new. A well-known Bay Area activist burned three during protests that temporarily shut down the Port of Oakland in November.

    Troy Johnson, an Occupy Oakland member, said he arrived just in time Saturday to watch his friend, whom he would not name in order to protect his identity, emerge from City Hall with an American flag in tow.

    "He asked the crowd, 'What do you want us to do with the flag?'" Johnson recalled. "They said, 'Burn it! Burn it! Burn it!'"

    As many egged on the bandanna-masked men, lighters were passed around. A photographer on assignment for The Associated Press said a woman rose from among the crowd to urge against the flag-burning. She then threw the flag to the ground and tried to put out the fire, shouting at them that it would only hurt their cause.

    The fire-starter is not an anarchist, but a typical member of Occupy Oakland who feels the system has failed them, said Johnson, who pulled out his cellphone to show his recording of the flag-burning.

    "I would describe him as someone who loves his country, but also disappointed in the system that's running this country," said Johnson, who goes by the nickname "Uncle Boom" and was a sergeant in the U.S. Army.

    Johnson said he wouldn't stop the flag-burning because the country is based on freedom of speech and expression.

    "To the veterans who fought for this country, I wholeheartedly apologize," he said. "Because when they took the oath to join the military, they fought for the flag. But they also fought for the right to express ourselves."

    Another Occupy member, Sean Palmer, who served in the Marines, said he opposed flag-burning. "I think they should've hung it upside down, because that's the international call for distress and that's what we are, in distress," Palmer said.

    Saturday's protest culminated in rock- and bottle-throwing and volleys of tear gas from the police, as well as the City Hall break-in that left glass cases smashed, graffiti spray-painted on the walls and, finally, the flag-burning.

    Police said more than 400 people were arrested; at least three officers and one protester were injured.

    Police said Monday that they were still trying to determine how many of those arrested were from Oakland. In the past, the majority of those arrested in Occupy sweeps were not Oakland residents and this has rankled city officials. Mayor Jean Quan has called on the loosely organized movement to "stop using Oakland as its playground."

    Officials said vandalism and activities related to Occupy Oakland have cost the financially strapped city $5 million since October.

    Oakland Councilwoman Libby Schaaf said she was disgusted not to see the American and California flags atop the grand staircase inside City Hall on Monday. The destruction to her workplace couldn't have come at a worse time as the city is grappling with closing a $28 million budget deficit.

    "To do this to us in a week were we have to lay off so many city workers is so unconscionable," Schaaf said.

    Protester Julion Lewis-Tatman said he led the crowd in the plaza outside City Hall, but did not take part in the flag-burning.

    "I love this country to death, but burning the flag means nothing to me," he said. "We're burning down the old system and we're starting a new country."

    ___

    Beth Duff-Brown reported from San Francisco. Deepti Hajela contributed to this story from New York.

    ___

    Online:

    AP interactive: http://hosted.ap.org/interactives/2011/wall-street-protest/

     
    • skysoldier211@yahoo.com  •  3 mths ago
      I am a very proud Vietnam veteran and former US Army Drill Sergeant. I remember the days abroad and news from home in regard to flag burning. It was viewed by military personnel as the ultimate insult.
      Every day spent dodging bullets, sleeping in and around rice paddies, helping to carry the wounded and dead, many of whom were friends, is still a stark and vivid reminder of what thousands of brave men did for this country. Since those days, I have forgiven many of the anti war proponents that just could not separate the warrior from the war but the actions of the Occupy group is not justified nor forgiving.

      If you have a problem with the government, make your statement in other ways, but never burn the flag that many of my friends and fellow soldiers fought and died for so bravely.
      • libertybelle 3 mths ago
        Skysoldier, Thank you for your service.
        My father spent 2 tours in Vietnam. He was there in 65 and 69.
        I still have my dog tags, they are hanging on my dresser mirror, my reminder.
    • emanon  •  3 mths ago
      If the Occupiers had a Flag I would burn theirs.
    • Psychesvariance  •  Madison, Wisconsin  •  3 mths ago
      That's a sad picture. Old Glory set alight in the hands of "hip" thugs. Most aren't even old enough to have contributed ANYTHING significant to a system that has given them everything-even the right to Burn a National Symbol as a form of protest. What's worse they burned Old Glory, just to be cool and to gain renown. Just one more point of proof that the Occupy movement does not have the interest of the so called "99%" at its heart, It never has, and it never will... They are in my eyes Brigands, thieves and thugs. The same thing they accuse the infamous and nebulous 1% of being... Talk about calling the kettle black...
    • FYI  •  3 mths ago
      "Many in the crowd outside Oakland City Hall shouted "Burn it! Burn it!" as masked protesters readied to set fire to an American flag."

      Only cowards protest wearing a mask.
      • Michael 3 mths ago
        Thats not true. Criminals do too.
      • FYI 3 mths ago
        Good point Michael.
    • I Didn't Vote For Him  •  3 mths ago
      Liberals seem to think that burning the American flag is a freedom of speech, but that burning a Koran should be considered a crime.....idiots.
    • Walt and Leilani  •  3 mths ago
      Defiling a national symbol is not really a good idea to draw support from Americans who have found a new sense of national pride. DOWN WITH FLAG BURNERS!!!!!! You don't belong here so why not go to the middle east and ask for asylum??
      • street 3 mths ago
        its a freedom of expression. what bright idea have u come wit it ? i know none- u a #$%$ y i bet u supported the arabs when they protested but ure fellow american u called them flag burners
    • Life Seeker  •  3 mths ago
      largely peaceful protests??? COME ON YAHOO... THEY ARE HATEFUL SOCIALIST'S WHO HATE AMERICA!
    • timetostandup  •  3 mths ago
      they are #$%$ no better than the pak,s,iran,any of the country,s who hate America hope they burn in hell
    • Obie  •  3 mths ago
      During the hysteria after Sept 11th there were American flags everywhere.
      You couldn't look in any direction and not see one. Every fifth car had one
      attached to its antenna. I traveled exclusively by bicycle then. I found several
      flags in the gutter lost, muddy, and dirty. I took them home and washed and dried
      them and folded them and put them away in the drawer. I thought I would save
      them just in case America ever came back to its senses.
      • Jason P 3 mths ago
        Wether our country does or not don't discard our flag unless it is through the VFW!!! Dispose of them properly please!!
      • A Yahoo! User 3 mths ago
        as I reflect on 9/11 and people with flags on their cars,, houses and stores, I was dismayed at the time that people were going into graveyards and taking flags from verteans graves to display... over the years since, I have thought how my dad who lost a leg in France would feel about someone taking his flag...
        my thoughts are now that he would have approved of someone taking his flag and using it to support this great country that he gave a limb and later his life for... he would have said "wave it proudly; let it inspire others; together make a stand for what we are, who we are and never let the world forget". they replaced his flag the next year...I am sure he didn't miss it for it went to a great cause...
      • Jason P 3 mths ago
        @nameless^^ Yes a bet your father would approve minus the burning of our Flag!!
    • ozzman002  •  3 mths ago
      You will not burn a flag in front of me...never!
      • mike 3 mths ago
        LOl ok
      • Bernard 3 mths ago
        Mike,I bet you hear people laughing at you all the time.
      • B Atkins 3 mths ago
        Does Mike the re-re libertard show up everywhere? Mike, why don't you go occupy a paycheck.
    • Tom  •  3 mths ago
      I’m glad to see they burned the flag. I would like to see them burn a few empty buildings. Then people would finally recognize then for the anarchist they are. They’re not protesting. They’re rioting.
    • I Didn't Vote For Him  •  3 mths ago
      This article is just another reminder of how much mentally ill liberals really hate America......plain and simple.
    • david  •  3 mths ago
      I thought they liked US (We The People) but didn't like Corporations?
      ****
      Simple Minded TRUST FUND BABIES that they are....Harvard Under Grads.
      ****
      Why BURN the American Flag...? This makes NO SENSE...!
    • SirArthurConanDoyleFan  •  3 mths ago
      Getting caught up in the moment of burglary, vandalism and arson does not make what these people did an admirable revolutionary act. Conscientious people will not follow, only anarchists will.
    • Richard  •  Valparaiso, Indiana  •  3 mths ago
      Do NOT burn the American Flag ! America is not our enemy. Our enemies are the people who have used our politicians to take advantage of our hard work, and are paid off by the lobbyists to keep us down! Our flag is a symbol of the sacrifice made by the people throughout the years who fought to keep us free, whether Military, or the workers who supported us with their production of necessary goods. If you want to burn something, burn the greed-mongers who steal our hard earned money from us and their symbols of the wealth that they have flaunted at us ! Better yet, channel that anger into a more constructive means of revenge, and get organized and get out the vote in November ! Talk to everyone, try to show reason,and try to seek out statistics. Try to educate everyone on the importance of paying attention to the facts, not just falling for silly catch-phrases that have no truth to them ! We have 9 months, the same as the gestation period of a woman that is to have a baby. Lets give birth to a baby named Freedom !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • Dave  •  Gainesville, Florida  •  3 mths ago
      I turn my back to them now.
    • juan  •  3 mths ago
      Burning our flag?? Hey, hate whatever but doing that is completely un-American & shows you don't have any respect for this great Country!! Wow. Sickens me. True, freedom of speech, & it's just a piece of cloth....but.....
    • Dr. Funks Info  •  3 mths ago
      These 'were' the Obama supporters that were convinced he was the answer. idiots.
    • steve  •  3 mths ago
      sure u have the right to burn the u.s. flag, but when u burn it, it's a slap in the face to all americans. if u want to burn the flag, u best leave the country and do it and don't come back.
    • BassKing80  •  Beaverton, Oregon  •  3 mths ago
      You know what, D.C. politics makes me sick, and corporate greed makes me sick. The two major parties make me sick and but who and the hell is this guy to say were burning down the system and starting a new country. How about voting out the greed, how about getting involved, running for office, making a real change. Paying attention to the Bills up for vote and what they pass in washington. Getting signatures for referendums. How about doing something productive other than just creating chaos. Im so sick of this movement, they seemed to have gotten off track a long time ago. You dont effect change by destroying something that your hard earned tax dollars paid for. City Halls are not the problem in this country. A complacent and uneducated culture is, and many of this people I think have no idea what are who they're fighting against.
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