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    Triceratops No Slouch, New Forelimb Study Reveals

    By Wynne Parry | LiveScience.com – Sat, Feb 25, 2012

    The three-horned dinosaur Triceratops may have had a more upright, athletic posture than thought, new anatomical evidence suggests.

    Researchers say Triceratops' forelimbs may have resembled those of a large mammal,  kept closer to its body than the forelimbs of reptiles and amphibians that typically have a lower, more sprawling posture.

    The key is in the elbow, according to the researchers, Shin-ichi Fujiwara from the University of Tokyo and John Hutchinson from the Royal Veterinary College of the University of London.

    Hutchinson and Fujiwara knew that the bones of the elbow joint would look different depending on an animal's posture, because, for example, an animal with more-sprawling forelimbs would rely on different muscles to support its elbow than would an animal with a more upright posture. Animals, like, say a dog or an elepant, with more upright forelimbs rely on their triceps and have a prominent "funny bone" that acts as lever enabling the muscles to keep the elbow from bending too much. Meanwhile, animals, such as lizards, with sprawling forelimbs rely on muscles called adductors to pull the elbows toward the body.

    By looking at the skeletons of 318 four-legged animals housed in museums, including crocodiles, birds and marsupials, the researchers found three primary measurements to describe elbow joint support, and developed an index based on their data.

    They applied the index to the forelimb postures of extinct four-legged animals, including Triceratops, a type of pterosaur called Anhanguera, and a group of extinct hippolike mammals called desmostylians.  All appear to have had forelimbs withupright postures, the researchers wrote in an article published Tuesday (Feb. 21) in the journal the Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

    You can follow LiveScience senior writer Wynne Parry on Twitter @Wynne_Parry. Follow LiveScience for the latest in science news and discoveries on Twitter @livescience and on Facebook.

     
    • Ridge walking
      Ridge walking  •  3 mths ago
      I would appreciate a diagram at least of how Triceratops would have looked if standing upright or such. I just can't get the image in my mind.
      • CJEB
        CJEB 3 mths ago
        Exactly!
      • Phoenix
        Phoenix 3 mths ago
        I'm not going to blame yahoo this time, doesn't sound like any images exist.
      • William
        William 3 mths ago
        I googled erect triceratops and came up with a link to sciencemag d0t 0rg (thank you for banning all URLs, Yahoo). An image suggested in their May 2001 issue shows a possible "erect" stegosaur skeleton. It isn't walking around on its hind feet; it just has four legs that are positioned like a horse or other large mammal.

        The debate over dinosaur posture has been around for decades. I think it was Jack Horner who pointed out that the old idea of widespread legs didn't work for dinosaur skeletons--the creatures would have scraped their bellies when they walked on flat ground. The wide stance works for modern lizards, but evidently these creatures have evolutionary differences from dinosaurs.
    • WesleyM
      WesleyM  •  Eugene, Oregon  •  3 mths ago
      Why would anyone think the Triceratops was a slouch in the first place?
      • Dark
        Dark 3 mths ago
        A "Gryf" in the Tarzan comics - at least those by the great Jesse Marsh.
      • Dark
        Dark 3 mths ago
        Or maybe it was spelled "Gyrf" - not sure. Hey, I'm old, that's why I remember Jesse Marsh Tarzan comics. He had a lot of great drawings of this creature, however it was spelled. Alas, he like the triceratops, has long since departed. May he rest in peace.
      • Joshua
        Joshua 3 mths ago
        Good question.
    • American Muscle
      American Muscle  •  3 mths ago
      I dont think im alone when I say I dont think Triceratops was a slouch. I mean I dont think it was anything terribly fast, but lets say if they were still around, I dont have a snowballs chance in hell of outrunning it. Can you imagine Dinosaurs roaming wild in the present day? *State Farm claims, how can I help you?* "Yeah! A freaking Triceratops ran out in the road and tackled my car!" *What state is the car in?* "Umm...well the triceratops is still trying to get the engine off his horns...he hit that car pretty hard..."
      • Dibeetus
        Dibeetus 3 mths ago
        Is that a Bronto engine in that chally or are you just happy to see me? If you had a Charger, you would have killed the triceratops, flipping him into opposite traffic to waste a camaro. Now that you know you have failed, just be glad you weren't in a Fraud!
      • Scharnhorst
        Scharnhorst 3 mths ago
        Actually #$%$ the evolution of triceratops has been clearly shown from protoceratops to monoclonius to triceratops, pentaceratops and other dinos. try reading real science instead of you biblical comic book.
    • Jon B
      Jon B  •  3 mths ago
      Yeah, a more upright posture to help it ram its horns into the gut of a T. Rex. Also, so that cow bell will hang properly.
      • Sixeyess4dinner
        Sixeyess4dinner 3 mths ago
        "...Also, so that cow bell will hang properly."

        Sacred scripture suggests that 'cow bells' were indeed used. The Gospel of Skipper describes the disciple Gilligan using hemp rope and coconuts filled with beach stones, to alert the crew of T. Rex's approach........
      • Dustin
        Dustin 3 mths ago
        Need more cow bell
      • Joseph
        Joseph 3 mths ago
        someone turn up that cow bell.
    • Stacy L
      Stacy L  •  Raleigh, North Carolina  •  3 mths ago
      In the mid-80's Bakker cited the angle of the shoulder joint, trackway evidence, etc. to support the more upright carriage of the Triceratops forelimb proposed by Marsh in the 1890s...
      • NealR
        NealR 2 mths ago
        Your information is correct. I'm a paleontologist and I have read Bakker's observations on Triceratops. Ceratopsians were quite diverse. Protoceratops is one of the early ones. Fossilized remains of it and a Velociraptor were found together. The two apparently died during a struggle with each other.
    • LastTrueConservative
      LastTrueConservative  •  2 mths ago
      Funny how the bias of scientists creeps into science. They were all sure these animals were slow moving, cold blooded, stupid, ... and now, based on the same 65+ M year old bones; we come to different conclusions when we act on observation and *not* preconception. Science moves in strange and wondrous ways indeed.
    • Skptc101
      Skptc101  •  3 mths ago
      Venator nicely asks - "Artist's conception please?"

      g00gle: New research provides clear answer to debate on dinosaur posture - Physorg

      Enjoy!
    • Nick_A._Please
      Nick_A._Please  •  3 mths ago
      Triceratops is still in my top 3 all time dinosaur. T-Rex and Albertasaurus are the other 2.
    • stpetejohnny
      stpetejohnny  •  Tampa, Florida  •  3 mths ago
      Always enjoy reading this type of information....as opposed to most of the nonsence that ends up on the yahooie front page.
    • Matt
      Matt  •  3 mths ago
      The thing is, when you go to Live Science where the original article was posted and look at their picture, the posture they're proposing is exactly how I've seen them depicted in movies and pictures my entire life. Nothing new at all. In fact, the alternative looks ridiculous. Who imagines a triceratops with crocodile-like posture?
    • kyle
      kyle  •  3 mths ago
      Anyone who can't understand this article is because triceratops have been depicted this way FOREVER. Lizards, crocodiles have legs that jut out away from the body before going downward to the ground, this article is simply saying the limbs are close to the body like a rhino, the way they have ALWAYS been depicted.
    • J.
      J.  •  Los Angeles, California  •  3 mths ago
      It was a tough neighborhood and Triceratops held its own.
    • William
      William  •  3 mths ago
      How can some of you guys be so anti-science. It's not perfect. Ideas and conclusions, do change as we learn more. And yes sometimes there is unfounded speculation passed off as science.

      Real science is based on what we see touch hear smell and measure and what we can logically deduce, or create a reasonable evidence based model of, based on those senses/measurements. What better options do we have?
    • What do you choke on
      What do you choke on  •  2 mths ago
      Just google "anguirus" and you can see what the are talking about.
    • Kascha_Kwan
      Kascha_Kwan  •  Atlantic City, New Jersey  •  3 mths ago
      Sid Melton was killed by one in The Lost Continent ( 1951 )
    • Robert
      Robert  •  Los Angeles, California  •  3 mths ago
      as some one said- LIVE SCIENCE has the article and pictures- i pictured some thing entirely different from what the article said, way different
    • John S
      John S  •  3 mths ago
      underpants.
    • A Yahoo! User  •  3 mths ago
      I love the hyperlinks. In this article, the first link wants to sell me a triceratops -- cheap!
    • Venator
      Venator  •  Port Hope, Canada  •  3 mths ago
      Artist's conception please?
    • L.C. - ABO!
      L.C. - ABO!  •  3 mths ago
      If you want the drawing Yahoo chose not to include, click on the word "Triceratops" in the very first sentance. Then click on the second link there. "Upright posture" is not as much as some think it is.
     Post a comment
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