All 5 together for first time: Jacksonville's sheriff candidates address transparency, school shootings

It was a massacre of innocents 1,100 miles away, leaving 19 students and two teachers dead on May 24 at a school in Uvalde, Texas.

But what if it was happening in Jacksonville? If a gunman forced his way into a school and began firing — what would the four men and one woman running for Jacksonville sheriff in the Aug. 23 special election do as the city's top cop?

That was one of the final questions directed at them during Wednesday evening's "Meet the Candidates" event.

"I know it is a terrible thing to talk about, but that's the reality," the questioner said. "Those kids don't get to come back."

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T.K. Waters, who just retired as the Sheriff's Office's chief of investigations, said he would make sure his officers are there to support the school police. But he also said the district must strengthen the schools because people who attack them and churches believe they are easy targets. So schools need armed security, backed up by immediate Sheriff's Office response, he said.

"We need to put a guy inside the vestibule area where people know who he is and know he has the ability to take care of business when it is time to take care of business," said Waters, the lone Republican in the race. "... When it's time, we are going to go in. If it's me by myself, I'm going, because that's our responsibility."

Wayne Clark, retired acting director of the police force for the county's public schools, after decades in the Sheriff's Office, said there is security in every school, including sheriff's officers on overtime.

"I am confident that the Duval County Schools Police Department has the resources and ability to thwart any attack like Uvalde," Clark said. "We will call in the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, and those guys know that we have to go in. We have to stop the killing inside the classroom."

Officers at every school is "a good idea," said retired Officer Tony Cummings. But he said almost 400 officers responded to that Texas school after the 18-year-old gunman got inside, and they "didn't stop a thing!" Find ways to help people with issues, and get sensible gun laws, he said.

"Fortifying a school and sending our kids to a bunker doesn't stop a thing," Cummings said. "We have to get serious about how we treat mental illness in our community. I will reinstitute the crisis intervention training program inside the Sheriff's Office so I can go after these individuals in real time and try to mitigate these red flag issues."

Jacksonville's school police are trained and ready to "meet the challenge," retired Officer Ken Jefferson said. But he promised that if elected, the delayed response of officers who never stormed the classroom in Uvalde until many people were dead "will never happen in Jacksonville."

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"We run to trouble," Jefferson said. "We don't stand by and wait for an order. You have kids dying, crying, yelling and screaming. Even if it isn't children, there's a human life in there and that bullet is so permanent. That would never happen under my watch."

Calling what happened in Texas "horrific," retired Assistant Chief Lakesha Burton said school police are properly trained and work on tactics with the Sheriff's Office. Her husband is the current police chief for the schools.

"Many people know that we created a co-responder program so we have a licensed mental health counselor riding with police officers now," Burton said. "... They do a lot of work on the front end where they are being preventive meeting with those we know have mental illness, but also responding in real time on patrol."

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The Istanbul Center and Atlantic Institute organized and hosted Wednesday's event. It was the first time all five candidates for sheriff met for a community forum, and it lasted about 90 minutes in front of a packed room of almost 100 people.

Each candidate gave an opening statement, then responded to questions that had been submitted to them in advance, followed by some new ones from the audience. Candidates got one to two minutes to respond, with brief rebuttals if they wanted.

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The candidates were originally slated to campaign for several more months, then face off in a March 21 election, with the top vote-getters running in the May 16 general election. But when Williams moved to Nassau County 14 months ago, a fact recently uncovered, he was found to be in noncompliance with the City Charter and resigned on June 2.

That resignation put the sheriff's campaign into high gear as an Aug. 23 special election was announced and Gov. Ron DeSantis appointed Undersheriff Pat Ivey as interim sheriff. Then it went from six to five candidates in mid-June when Republican Mathew Nemeth withdrew from the race.

A matter of transparency

Another question Wednesday centered on how transparent Sheriff's Office operations are to the public, including how investigations into officer shootings are done.

Right now the Sheriff's Office investigates its own officer shootings and whether they followed department procedure, while the State Attorney's Office looks into whether it was justified or potentially criminal. Most other Sheriff's Offices in Florida pass the investigation on to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

Jefferson, also a former Sheriff's Office public affairs officer, immediately said that if elected, "the very first thing" he will do is have the FDLE investigate all officer shootings.

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"I would give that to them as a third party and keep us informed as to how the investigation is going, and the outcome of the investigation is full transparency," Jefferson said. "... It would not cost any additional money. It is going to provide transparency throughout the entire process. Secondly, I will make public records more accessible and more convenient for the public as well as the press."

Clark was next, saying he intends to build up the public's trust in the department and be more accountable and compassionate with them. That includes finding a way to allow citizens to "have access to what we do," he said.

"There are a lot of things we do that are not a big secret. We make it seem like it's something mystical," he said. "... People want to know why we do what we do. They may not agree with what we do, but at least we have explained it to them and they understand it. We have to find a way to be transparent."

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Without transparency, it is difficult "to bridge the gap" between law enforcement and the community, said Burton, whose last job was in charge of the police zone that included the Istanbul Center. But if elected, she committed to being "up front" about processes and procedures, and being timely communicating with the public.

"A lot of the transparency concerns are stemming from officer-involved shootings because of the lack of information that's coming out," Burton said. "The first step into building transparency and trust is looking at an outside entity like FDLE to come in and look at our officer-involved shootings."

She is also looking at ways to work better with media to get critical information to the community, admitting that relationship has "soured" over recent years.

Waters, who was often called on to address the media after police shootings, said he is a "big believer in telling and talking to people as much and as often as I can." He said the State Attorney's Office's investigations into officer shootings are independent of what the Sheriff's Office does. But all information on police shootings and other issues is always available on its transparency.jaxsheriff.org website after the investigation is done, he said.

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"What would I do differently? I want to start a larger public affairs unit. We have three PIOs for an agency of more than 3,000 people. That's not enough," Waters said. "... I answer your questions whenever I get the opportunity because there's really nothing to hide, nothing but information for us to share so you can trust us. And trust is paramount for what we do."

But Cummings, who has unsuccessfully run before for sheriff, said there are serious problems in the department due to the high number of violent crimes and "terrible management and leadership." As for police shootings, there is "no one holding anyone accountable" since only the Sheriff's Office handles the internal investigation, leaving no independent oversight.

"What's happening is that these officers are hiding behind qualified immunity," Cummings said. "... The Civil Service Board is not taking any action, the FDLE is not called in to investigate anything and the State Attorney's Office won't prosecute. Where does that leave us?"

It leaves us with the idea of a civilian review board so people "can have a seat at that table," which only a sheriff can allow, Cummings said.

Wrapping matters up

Even though Aug. 23 is a primary election for the Democratic and Republican parties for a host of offices, the special election for sheriff will have all of its candidates on the same ballot. Anyone who is a registered Duval County voter can cast a ballot for a candidate who would finish out the remainder of Williams' original term.

If a runoff is needed, it would occur on Nov. 8, city officials said. And the five candidates, if they choose, would still have to run for a full four-year term at the city elections in 2023, that job starting next July.

dscanlan@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-4549

Candidate bios

•  Lakesha Burton, 46, was assistant chief of the city's Police Zone 2 in Arlington until her retirement in February. She is the first Black woman to run for sheriff and is a Democrat.

•  Wayne Clark, 59, is a 30-year Sheriff's Office veteran who also directed the Jacksonville Airport Authority's Aviation security department and recently left the Duval County Schools Police Department as acting director. He is Democrat.

•  Tony Cummings, a Democrat, began with the Sheriff's Office in 1995 working in the patrol and detective divisions as well as an adjunct professor with Keiser University's Crime Scene Technology program. He ran for sheriff in 2015 and 2019.

•  Ken Jefferson, 64, is a 24-year Sheriff's Office veteran and former public information officer. This is his third run for the office. He left News4Jax as its public safety expert after 11 years to enter the election as a Democrat.

• T.K. Waters, 51, has 30 years in law enforcement starting as a corrections officer in 1991. As chief, he retired from the Sheriff's Office to run for the position. He is a Republican.

This article originally appeared on Florida Times-Union: Jacksonville sheriff candidates answer questions at election forum