Ex-Wagner Group soldier on the failed rebellion in Russia, Prigozhin fallout

In the weeks following a failed mutiny that saw mercenary soldiers marching toward Moscow in an armed rebellion, Wagner Group paramilitary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has been banished from the Kremlin’s inner circle.

Last month, Prigozhin led his soldiers toward the Russian capital on a so-called march for justice to remove what he called Russia’s incompetent and corrupt senior military leadership. Hours later, just 125 miles from Moscow, Prigozhin turned back, stating, “Russian blood will be spilled on one side.”

It is a mystery to some as to why Priogzhin — described by his former assistant and ex-Wagner soldier Marat Gabidullin as “brutal” and “creative” — went to such measures to denounce Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, as well as Gen. Valery Gerasimov and Gen. Sergei Surovikin.

Russian President Vladimir Putin called the insurrection a “betrayal,” and went so far as to accuse Prigozhin of treason. It was then reported that Prigozhin had been removed as Wagner’s leader and exiled to Belarus.

On Thursday, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko claimed Prigozhin was not, in fact, in Belarus, and was actually still in Russia. The Kremlin did not deny this, but rather said it was "not following" Prigozhin's movements.

Prigozhin resurfaced on Monday, defending his mutiny in a voice message on the Telegram messaging app: “I want you to understand that our march for justice was aimed at fighting traitors and mobilizing our society.”

While speculation continues to swirl in the aftermath of the insurrection, Yahoo News spoke to Gabidullin, who now lives in France, via a translator on life with the Wagner outfit. Answers have been lightly edited for length and clarity.

Why do you think Prigozhin organized this "march for justice"?

I believe Prigozhin decided for himself that it was a convenient moment to call on Putin to think more rationally and make a choice between Prigozhin and Shoigu. Shoigu is an incompetent minister of defense who constantly interferes in managing the armed forces despite his lack of competence in military matters. The whims of Shoigu also impeded the smooth collaboration between the Russian military and Wagner.

Shoigu and Prigozhin are two antagonists, enemies who hate each other on a personal level. Prigozhin believed that he had enough achievements to make Putin listen to him, but he miscalculated. It happens to him sometimes. He is a very intelligent person, but sometimes his ego takes over. Putin doesn’t need a good minister of defense; he needs someone who supports his power and firmly opposes Shoigu. By doing so, Prigozhin is aiming for power in general. When Prigozhin realized this, he ordered a return to the base camps. Various intermediaries and peacekeepers like Lukashenko are just distractions, justifications for not arresting Prigozhin. Prigozhin won't repeat such actions.

After serving three years with Wagner, why did you leave?

I left because I realized that the direction in which Wagner was going wasn’t aligned with my own understanding of the purpose of such an organization. War for the sake of war is not my life philosophy. Wagner was deteriorating from a group of mercenaries into a group of combat slaves.

Last year, you told the Guardian that "Wagner soldiers have skills that ordinary soldiers don't have." What are these skills?

Wagner's fighters and commanders are only prepared for war. They do not participate in parades and ceremonial processions. The training system for Wagner’s fighters consists of constant practice of the skills in conditions as close to real war as possible. Wagner’s fighters are people who have been through several wars. Their skills in weapon handling and survival on the battlefield are honed in actual war.

What role have Russian prisoners played in Wagner’s ranks?

Prigozhin received access to Russian jails in order to provide Wagner forces with many resources in the advance of Bakhmut in Ukraine. This is a violation of Russian law. However, all prisoners signed contracts voluntarily.

Why do you think the West is so fascinated with the Wagner Group?

I think it’s because the West actually doesn’t know what Wagner is and, most importantly, doesn’t want to understand the essence of this ambiguous phenomenon. For the West, Wagner is an unknown and mysterious myth with a touch of romanticism. It is similar to how many people in the West, and not only, perceive the personality of Che Guevara [the iconic communist figure involved in the Cuban revolution]. Many people wear T-shirts with his image, but they would never want to live in a country governed by such Che Guevaras.

How do you respond to accusations from the United Nations and elsewhere that Wagner has committed war crimes in Ukraine?

All accusations of war crimes by Wagner fighters are based solely on testimonies that are not supported by independent investigations. Often such testimonies lack any legal force. The accounts of crimes committed by Wagner in Mali are provided by individuals who are hostile toward the military authorities that have taken control of the country, and there is a lack of functioning independent sources of information in Mali.

The journalists accusing Wagner of crimes have never been to Mali themselves. I have always stated that the war against Ukraine is a crime, and Wagner has tarnished its reputation by participating in this war. But I don't believe that Wagner fighters commit crimes against civilians. It would damage Prigozhin’s image, as he claims himself as a defender of the Russian-speaking population in Ukraine, and Donbas is a region where many Russian-speaking people are located. Personally, I think all the excitement around Wagner is a well-funded campaign by interested parties to discredit Wagner and push them out of Africa. The participants in this campaign actually don’t care about Ukraine; they are working for the money they receive from sponsors.

Marat Gabidullin is the author of several books about his time with the Wagner mercenary army.