Another GOP Debate, 2 More Alternative Realities
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Former President Donald Trump continued his practice of skipping debates with his Republican primary opponents and instead held a town hall aired by Fox News.
Viewers of both CNN and Fox News could turn on their televisions Wednesday night and witness Republican presidential candidates existing in alternative realities.
On CNN, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley debated mostly as if they were the only two candidates in the race ― rather than trailing former President Donald Trump by massive margins in Iowa just days before its caucuses and in national polling.
And over on Fox News, Trump got to exist in a world where his support was universal and his coup attempt was an afterthought, if it was thought of at all.
Throughout the night, DeSantis and Haley rarely deviated from giving answers that sounded like canned lines from their stump speeches. And it appeared that neither candidate was ready to tackle the electorally complicated reality that Trump, barring an act of God, will most likely win Monday’s caucuses based on his 30-percentage-point polling lead.
Trump’s name was barely raised except to occasionally evoke the fact that he had declined an invitation to what was the last Republican presidental debate before voters begin to decide on his possible return to the White House.
“I wish Donald Trump was on this stage. He’s the one I’m running against,” Haley said at one point, a remark that attempted to undercut the person standing beside her on stage and look toward future races on the calendar, which polls forecast will be a tighter contest between Trump and Haley.
Both Haley and DeSantis dodged a question about whether Trump respects the U.S. Constitution, but they went harder on him in other areas. Haley laughed off the “absolute immunity” argument that Trump’s attorneys are floating in a federal appeals court as a trial over the events of Jan. 6, 2021, approaches. DeSantis also pointed out — more than halfway through the debate — that Trump’s legal problems mean that Republicans could potentially elevate a nominee who’s facing possible conviction in one or more cases.
During the hourlong “town hall” on Fox News, Trump fielded friendly questions from voters, almost all of whom supported him, and from Fox News’ Bret Baier and Martha McCallum, who never once challenged anything he said, no matter how wrong.
Notably, Trump’s various plans to overturn the 2020 election and his incitement of the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 never once came up. Instead, viewers were treated to a softer, kinder version of Trump, one who definitely doesn’t want “revenge” and “retribution” against the “vermin” who oppose him, as he has repeatedly stated.
“I’m not going to have time for retribution,” Trump said Wednesday, adding, “Our ultimate retribution is success.”
Trump was also asked about whether he supported political violence after he said on Tuesday that there will be “bedlam in the country” if the criminal cases against him succeed and he then loses the 2024 election.
“Can you say tonight that political violence is never acceptable?” Baier asked Trump.
“Well, of course that’s right,” Trump said before deflecting by equating political violence with wars.
“Take a look at wars again. I didn’t start ― I wasn’t involved in wars,” Trump said, falsely.
Neither Baier nor McCallum raised the obvious objection here, that Trump incited an insurrection as part of a plot to keep him in office. Is Fox News just running cover for Trump or, after paying a $787 million settlement for peddling Trump’s election fraud lies and facing further litigation, is it too afraid of having him push those same lies on the air?
Either way, the town hall provided a window into an alternative reality where Trump not only did nothing wrong but apparently did nothing at all after losing the 2020 election.
Here are three more takeaways:
Former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley relished discussing Ron DeSantis' campaign woes. “If you can’t manage a campaign, how can you run a country?” she asked.
Haley goes in on DeSantis’ campaign woes.
“If you can’t manage a campaign, how can you run a country?” Haley said, in a particularly stinging comment directed at DeSantis, referencing his staff turnover and the whopping $150 million his campaign has spent so far.
“He has nothing to show for it,” Haley said. “He spent more money on private planes than he has on commercials trying to get Iowans to vote for him.”
Campaign-in-disarray attacks can feel like inside baseball for the average voter, but Haley’s broader point was meant to undercut DeSantis’ much-touted leadership in the “great state of Florida.” The Florida governor’s candidacy hinges on his conservative leadership. His star in the Republican Party rose as he fought COVID-19 safety measures and crusaded against “woke” indoctrination in classrooms and at one of his state’s largest employers, the Disney Co.
But the drama unfolding with DeSantis’ campaign operation and his allied super PAC, Never Back Down, has generated a series of unflattering headlines, most recently when its chief political architect, Jeff Roe, quit just two months before the caucuses.
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis seized on Nikki Haley's tenure as ambassador to the United Nations to try to depict her as a "globalist."
‘You can take the ambassador out of the U.N.’: DeSantis knocks Haley’s conservative credentials.
With dwindling cash reserves and little chance of an upset in New Hampshire, DeSantis has a lot riding on the Iowa caucuses, with polling shows him neck-and-neck with Haley for second place.
DeSantis’ closing argument against Haley was that she simply is not conservative enough and will cave to liberal or big business pressure on hot-button cultural issues.
DeSantis repeatedly cast doubt on Haley’s record on border enforcement, standing up to China, squashing transgender rights for youth, holding the line against taxes and championing private-school vouchers, claiming she had “caved to the teachers union” rather than give the parents of every public school student the money to pick a private option.
“When you need someone standing and fight for you, don’t look for Nikki Haley,” he said. “You won’t be able to find her if you had a search warrant.”
His attacks hit hardest, however, when he used a debate over aid for Ukraine to cast doubt on her credentials as an American nationalist. DeSantis said he wanted to examine where the U.S. aid is going and what would be the best way to achieve a peaceful outcome to a Russia-Ukraine war that is now in a stalemate.
“We’ve got homeless veterans, we have all these problems. This is the U.N. way of thinking that we’re somehow globalists and we have unlimited resources,” he said, drawing cheers from the audience. “You know, I think here’s the problem: You can take the ambassador out of the United Nations, but you can’t take the United Nations out of the ambassador.”
Haley pushed back on some of DeSantis’ claims but also repeatedly urged viewers to visit DeSantisLies.com for more complete rebuttals.
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis campaigns in Grimes, Iowa, on Monday. He is following Donald Trump's lead by casting himself as a defender of Social Security.
DeSantis’ populist notes signal a shift on Social Security.
If DeSantis tried to outflank Haley from the right on nationalist, fiscal and cultural grounds, he bobbed left on the question of Social Security, sounding at times like a populist Democrat.
Asked repeatedly whether he would raise Social Security’s retirement age for future retirees in order to close the program’s funding gap, DeSantis said he would “never” do so while Americans’ life expectancy is declining.
“Just think about it: That hurts blue-collar folks,” he said. “You get taxed your entire life, life expectancy’s down ― you may not even be recouping that many benefits.”
In fact, life expectancy in the United States increased in 2022 but declined significantly from 2019 to 2021.
But DeSantis is correct that there is evidence that Americans without college degrees are not benefiting from overall gains in life expectancy. From 2010 to 2019, life expectancy for those without college degrees declined, according to a study by two Princeton economists that came out in September.
DeSantis also defended Social Security as a program whose benefits Americans earn with contributions from their payroll taxes.
“Gov. Haley has said Social Security is an entitlement, but you know it’s not an entitlement. You’re paying into it,” he said. “It’s not a welfare program. You’re being taxed for it your whole life, and so, to expect to have benefits on the back end ― I don’t think that that’s too much.”
Not everything he said made sense, such as his regurgitation of the conservative talking point that Congress’ spending squandered Social Security’s past surpluses. (Social Security, which is self-financed, has been spending down its surpluses to accommodate the retirement of the baby boom generation.)
And Haley correctly pointed out that DeSantis’ rhetoric is at odds with his record of voting to increase the retirement age as a member of Congress.
But DeSantis’ remarks are evidence of just how much the debate over Social Security has shifted to the left since former President Barack Obama, a Democrat, tried to cut the program’s cost-of-living adjustment. His stance comes after Trump ran in 2016 on promises not to cut Social Security, a break with Republican orthodoxy that many analysts believe helped him win.
