AUP. S2E1: Bringing Blackness to Disney

Transcribed: Albert Parnell

Completed: 3/11/22

Cortney Wills [00:04:21] Hi Amanda. Nice to see you.

Amanda Seales [00:04:23] Hi. Nice to see you, too.

Cortney Wills [00:04:25] Been a while, but I was at your show in Brea the other night, actually. So you didn’t see me. But I saw you.

Amanda Seales [00:04:31] Really?

Cortney Wills [00:04:32] Yes.

Amanda Seales [00:04:32] You were in Brea?

Cortney Wills [00:04:34]  I got to Brea. I brought my sister along for the ride, and it was so needed. I mean, we were in the car driving there, like, first time seeing each other since this Roe v Wade was overturned. And we were just talking about it in the car and really realizing that, like, as on set as we were, we were still really trying to find the words. And I was like, Well, man, if you talk about it, I’ll tell you that.

Amanda Seales [00:05:03] Which show did you come to?

Cortney Wills [00:05:04] La la la la, la. What was that? I wanted to say it was the first one. It was opening night. So was that Saturday okay?

Cortney Wills [00:05:12] It was.

Amanda Seales [00:05:13] You came on Saturday

Cortney Wills [00:05:13] I came on Saturday and I was right next to those two White people that were making everyone quite comfortable.

Amanda Seales [00:05:22] Yes. So you were the 8:00 show? Yes. Yes. That was a good show. No, no, no.

Cortney Wills [00:05:28] No, no. I was a late show. I was 930.

Amanda Seales [00:05:32] Yes. Okay. Okay. Now, that was still a good show. I like the the Saturday shows to me are like the the best ones because like, you’re like in the thick of things. But yes, those two White people were definitely in the mix and I was just like, how do I get here? Yes. And they were also in the front.

Cortney Wills [00:05:49]  Yes. And before you notice them, I mean, I could just feel them. She was giving like Sarah Palin. Like where where am I? How did I get here?

Amanda Seales [00:06:00] She was very uncomfortable and I could feel it. Yes.

Cortney Wills [00:06:04] Yes. But the show was fantastic. I’m so glad that we went. It delivered a lot of laughs that we really needed. And, of course, touched on some things that are on all of our minds right now, which is, you know, this dumpster fire that is our country at the moment.

Amanda Seales [00:06:22] I mean, yeah, you know, and I’m going out on tour in the midst of this and it feels simultaneously like annoying and necessary, you know, like, I mean, there’s a there’s a annoying is not the word, but there’s a trepidation I have just about going into this current America. I haven’t even been on tour since 2019. So there’s just like the natural trying to get back into the rhythm of being into the being in the midst of people again, aside from the fact that like we’re getting, I’m doing that in the midst of the biggest reversion this country has ever seen in its history. I mean, I think don’t get me wrong, I never felt like this was a progressive place in many ways. But I think that at the end of the day, we’re seeing such a it’s the quickness and the immensity at the same time. And just knowing that it’s not being done in a legal fashion, you know, the call is coming from inside the house. I did an interview with Symone Sanders where, you know, she was asking me, do I think like Biden and Kamala, you know, are handling this the best way that they can? And I feel like, you know, no, it doesn’t. And she was like, what do you think, you know, people will need to feel like the administration is working for them? And I’m like, first of all, they’re not loud about anything. Like, no one really knows what they’re doing and it never feels like they’re meeting these Republicans with the same energy but in the other direction. And that to me is just I’m tired, I’m exhausted. And I’m also just seeing so much infighting between, like, communities that claim to want the same thing. And that for me is like I’m trying to do my best to to really not bite like the bait. Yeah, right. You know, to really not bite the bait because you don’t know people’s true intentions. But ultimately, I feel like we are we are in the fight of our lives. And I don’t think a lot of people really understand that. And so there’s a lot of. There’s a lot of people just seeing the short side of things and not the long the long road. And you know who sees the long road? The Republicans. Okay. They’ve been seen it. And that’s why there is so much surprise on our end and so much excitement on theirs. Yeah, absolutely. The biggest gotcha bitch. It’s the biggest gotcha bitch since 1619.

Cortney Wills [00:09:11] Ever. I mean, and you know, we had the Politico leak, right? People are like, you had a warning.

Amanda Seales [00:09:18] That’s why I’m lke, You had it. You had it. When they’re saying they’re examining things and they’re putting together committees, I’m like, You had the leak. Yeah. Why wasn’t that already started? I just feel like, you know, and then people would say, well, you don’t understand how the process goes. Well, then maybe I don’t. Maybe the fucking process need to change then.

Cortney Wills [00:09:37] Right. Right. I remember being I was on a call with Luvie the day that that Politico report came out, and I was like, I don’t know what we were supposed to talk about, but I can’t think of anything about other then what the fuck I just read. And then though, I think, like, what did we do about it between then and now? Like, where was all of the rage? What could have even been done? Obviously, that leak was probably five. My guess is it was probably one of the justices that were like, Look what they are about to do. Like, I can’t fix this. And then this this decision is overturned. And still I was still shocked. I was at CVS in line for my COVID booster, and I just read the news. I thought it was like The Onion. I thought it was satire. And then I realized, no, this is a real report. And I just started crying and I’m with my daughter and she’s like, Why are you crying? And all I could muster was like, This country just decided that you don’t have the same rights as him pointing to my son. I mean, I’m looking at both of them a year apart. And like this just became instantly a very difficult view.

Amanda Seales [00:10:48] Having two children and looking 18. That’s what I’m looking at. I’m looking at Black Don’t Crack. That’s what I’m looking at. I’m like, does she seem another child? Like, Yeah, yes.

Cortney Wills [00:11:01] And and two on the way right now in my belly

Amanda Seales [00:11:08] Congrats.

Cortney Wills [00:11:09] Thank you. So much to be excited about. But also, it’s actually a very terrifying time to be a Black woman pregnant. And now, I mean, anyway, but now I hope nothing goes left to where.

Amanda Seales [00:11:22] Right, Right.

Cortney Wills [00:11:23] You know, thank God we live in California, but I could be somewhere where something would go left right now in my body. And someone would make the call that I just have to die and leave my two living kids alone. Because.

Amanda Seales [00:11:34] Because of the law. Yeah. So it is now the law that is supporting your death.

Cortney Wills [00:11:42] Yes.

Cortney Wills [00:11:43] And I think that’s what a lot of people are. That’s what I think a lot of people like fail to recognize is that criminality is just determined by who’s in power. You know what I’m saying? Like all of a sudden, any of us who needed an abortion for a myriad of reasons, right? Like I had a miscarriage and the physician told me if we were in a different state, I would not be able to perform this procedure on you. And and it is a necessary procedure. And so if I was a different state, I would be considered a criminal just for that. Right. And the way that this country judges criminality, you know, the way they just this country already shames women. And I mean, the amount of comments that I get on a regular basis just from like other people about like, oh, you’re too masculine in how you talk and oh, you talk too much and all her energy is so negative, etc., etc.. I’m like, I’m, I’m, I mean, I was groomed in New York. That’s what you’re that’s what you’re reading. That’s not negative. That’s New York. But there’s like this very puritanical way that people view women in this country that a lot of people won’t admit to. Right. And so when we talk about the idea of slut shaming and all that, that seems very extreme. But ultimately, when you’re saying that women should be ashamed of making their choices for reproductive reasons, you know, abortion is definitely something that has such a stigma around it. And I also want to see men speaking up, too, because they have absolutely had their lives affected by access to abortion. And I don’t just mean that in the sense of like, oh, they may have gotten somebody pregnant that, you know, they weren’t ready to parent with. But I mean, even in the case of having a partner who may have needed that procedure and it was lifesaving or it was mentally health saving, etc., and that allowed them to be able to show up for their partner in a way that, you know, they didn’t have to go to that next level. All of these things all these things are real and I know it sometimes feels like we’re talking into an echo chamber, but a lot of times these conversations are necessary on just a basic note of people not feeling alone and not people and people not ruminating on this to the point of mania. And I think a lot of us who know the scope of what’s going down, it can feel very isolating because this country does a great job with the media and with the Internet in shaping narratives that are simply not actual to what’s going on. And then you have folks who like to throw out things like, oh, misinformation, and then add to that. And it’s like the other reality is that. We gotta do better at meeting each other with some grace and some compassion and also just informing without insulting. I know that in the past I’ve 1,000% been guilty of that. And I’ve really, in my immaturity and my maturation, in my just my healing, I’ve really tried to be better about identifying when I’m doing that and who I’m doing that to. I will absolutely be insulting to a cone. That is just what it’s going to be. But I think, you know, just in being able, being able to identify who your enemies are, you know, a lot of people I feel I’m seeing a lot of people just be really willy nilly about that and it’s dividing us.

Cortney Wills [00:15:18] Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda Seales [00:15:19] It’s dividing us.

Cortney Wills [00:15:21] I don’t know that I’ve ever been and there’s been a lot there’s been a lot to be angry about and passionate about. But I don’t know that I’ve ever been like, I’m moving in the other way. Like, I find myself less tolerant, like less willing to meet people where they are and try and speak logic about this particular issue. I mean, even like you said, the men, this being framed as a women’s issue is so fucked up and so laughable.

Amanda Seales [00:15:48] Maddening.

Cortney Wills [00:15:49] Absolutely maddening. You know.

Amanda Seales [00:15:51] A lot of men who are, like, challenging. It’s a lot of men who are it’s men who are at the forefront of closing this down. So how is it a women’s issue.

Cortney Wills [00:16:00] How is it a women’s issue? Absolutely. And also, like, where are all of y’all like why are you being quiet now when it’s convenient for your career to speak up about George Floyd or police brutality? You are right there, like making sure you’re in the shot, saying your soundbite when it’s about something that you’ve absolutely. I promise you, I know for a fact, experienced, maybe paid for, benefited from or been involved with. It’s, you know, thoughts and prayers for all the women like no. How about thoughts and prayers for y’all? What do you think? Who do you think they’re coming for next? They just said we are not equal to men. We don’t have the same autonomy over our bodies and our health decision as men, like on the basis of sex doesn’t matter anymore. So what else can they just change their minds about?

Amanda Seales [00:16:54] I think that’s what has kind of just rendered me feeling real hopeless. I mean, I’ll get my hope back, but, you know, just just the individualism around this. I, you know, when I start to see that show up and how people can disassociate themselves from from matters that are affecting so many people, you know, and they can just be like, well it’s not affecting me, so. Mhm. You know, it’s not my problem and I think within the Black community we are very often, you know, we’re very possessive with our energy. Right, and we’re very possessive about like we don’t want to, you know, let’s not support fights that don’t support us. And I’m not going to, I’m not going to front like I absolutely adhere to that in some cases. But as I have watched just the. The true reality of what’s happening in this country. It’s going to be. It’s going to be. Well, and actually, let me just say this. The fight for Black liberation in this country has never simply just included Black Americans. That’s just never been the case. We may have been at the leading, at the forefront and at the heart of and at the soul. But in any case of liberation, it’s always going to end up involving other folks. And we when you start to look at who the other folks are, we when we come together, we outnumber the minority that’s acting as the majority. And so we have to consider beyond just ourselves. We have to culturally, I feel, identify, you know, how do we build bridges? And I’m not the first to say that by any means, but I just know that we can’t do this alone. I had someone say to me the other day like, Oh, you know, Caribbean people in America should not speak to what Black Americans should do for independence. And I just and they were adamant and they were like, you know, Marcus Garvey learned what he learned from W.E.B. Dubois. And Malcolm X never fought for Caribbean rights. He fought for Black American rights. So be it. I think, though, the truth is, we only hurt ourselves when we limit ourselves from the best ideas. And and the truth is, like, we don’t know who’s going to come with the best ideas. And we have a world of history to learn from and so to look to in terms of liberation movements and revolution movements and abolitionist movements, etc.. And it doesn’t by any means diminish our power as Black Americans to draw from the power that other groups have created in order to find their own liberation. It it doesn’t. And I think when we do that, we are actually mimicking our oppressor who’s great at just pretending that they know everything. You know, America is really great at that. And I’m just sad.

Cortney Wills [00:20:31] Absolutely.

Amanda Seales [00:20:33] I’m worn out. I’m sad. I’m I’m frustrated and I feel fortunate to just have outlets like smart, funny Black radio and, you know, stand up and smart, funny and Black lives to be able to connect with community. Yeah, because I do feel like I’m not the only one who feels this way. And we have to fight for our joy the same way we fight for the power.

Cortney Wills [00:20:59] Yeah. And I mean, this hugely monumental thing that I think we’re going to be talking about and working on and fighting for for a very long time. Now, that’s not all that’s going on. I mean, Black outside the store, like you said, it’s your first time since, what, 2019? I mean, pandemic shut us down, kind of shut this whole game of going to comedy shows and being two feet apart from feet, two feet apart from people down. And now it’s back. So talk to me a little bit about what that feels like and what, you know, what’s different even about the approach? Because if you’re nervous on stage, you know, I was nervous in the audience. I was like, you going to put those two people at this table right here next to me? Vaccination card, please. But I’m also grateful. I’m also ready. And I think we’re all ready to laugh, to be outside, to be together and not forget what happened, but start moving on from it in a way.

Amanda Seales [00:21:56] No, you’re absolutely right. I mean, this tour is coming on the heels of me really adhering to the stay inside manifesto of the past two and a half years. I mean, I, I recently had COVID for the first time. You know, I thought I was one of the people that they were going to come to my house and, like, ask to draw blood to put together the antibodies serum. It’s like I’m the last Mohican ya’ll. But it got me. It got me and led me out. And, you know, I will say that there was certain a certain level of relief, I think, after I got it, because it was like like I guess I have these antibodies now for a certain amount of time. And, you know, it gave me bridge. I mean, I’ve crossed this bridge. I mean, who knows at this point? Like, no, I feel like don’t nobody know anything about what really is what is. But I will say that being on stage, being on stage again really does feel great and getting to exercise my mind in that way and just honestly getting to connect with people in an analog way, right? Like this computer digital medium, you know, it gets the job done, but it’s not the same as hearing those laughs come through in real time. It’s not the same as being in different cities, right? And being able to see how people are living in those different cities and. Feeling the love, too. I mean, I’m somebody who is beleaguered by this Internet on a regular basis. Right? Like people really wake up and decide, like, I’m going to come for Amanda sales today and I’m going to, you know, just make it my business to defame her or whatever. And then and then when I say that, people say, well, you’re always the victim. It’s like, I’m really just awful here. Just talking, just talking. And when I say, Hey, I don’t like that, that doesn’t make me the victim. That makes me an advocate for myself. And I think, you know, when you’re doing that all the time and that’s the only outlet, it really feels like relief to now get to be in front of people in a real way and also in front of folks that have made the decision to understand me. You know, I think that there’s just a constant necessity for comedians to continue to push the conversation to be bastions for truth. You know, we don’t have the same, like, corporate adherence that a lot of folks have who are on shows or who may be representing brands, etc.. You know, we we are truth tellers and in many cases, truth translators. And I take that very seriously. And on this tour, I’m making it my business to talk about Roe v Wade, to talk about gun control, you know, but also talk about like, you know, the difference between hood neck is I think it’s Robin Hood, you know, like, you know, to talk about women’s health and to talk about Juneteenth and to talk about the difference between a White person, a person who happens to be White, an ally and a coconspirator. Anyone who knows my work knows that it’s always had a political edge to it. These days, though, that seems more of a calling than a style, and I just hope that I can continue in my best efforts. The work of folks like Dick Gregory and. And. Why am I blanking? Right. And Paul Mooney and and George Carlin and that that means like a lot to me. So for everyone who comes who’s come out to the show and who plans to come out to the show, you know, I really appreciate you even allowing me the space to do this and. Oh, and spending your hard earned gas money on a ticket. Because I mean, that’s the other thing. You know, it’s just it’s a different time. It’s a different place.

Cortney Wills [00:25:48] Yes. You know, you made me think about something. And that is that, you know, you do you do stick up for yourself. Like that is something that I have admired about you. I think you and I had something you called me directly years ago about a story that had your name in it. And I was like, You know what?

Amanda Seales [00:26:09] But when I called you, how how did I call, though?

Cortney Wills [00:26:13] I would say, very, I would, I would say very respectfully, I would say very respectfully.

Amanda Seales [00:26:19] But I called you cursing you out.

Cortney Wills [00:26:21] No. But this was a person I mean, honestly, that was one of the things that made me like, you know what, I kind of fuck with her because you could have called me cursing me out, right? But you called me as a professional in your profession, calling another professional in her profession like there is a problem with this. Let me explain it to you and then you decide what you want to do with it. But there are a lot of people who would not do that, and there are a lot of people who would fear that speaking out for themselves on social media or to a reporter or to anyone is going to, you know, hurt their brand or hurt their reputation or keep them from getting the gig that they want to get. And you are someone who I think has really leaned into who you are. You say what you mean, and yet you still work on screen, too. You’re not just doing stand up comedy on your own terms. You’re being cast. You know, you were a member of a show that was one of the most successful shows in the last decade. And so I wonder if there was a time where you had to decide that you weren’t going to be scared, that being yourself in this business might affect where you could go in this business? And how did you get through that or come to whatever decision you came to about that?

Amanda Seales [00:27:41] Well, first, let me just say that I appreciate that when I called you, you were receptive to me as a professional. Right. Because I think that’s the other thing that happens. Like I will stick up for myself and then I’ll see people who would have preferred a manager call or would have preferred an an agent or a publicist to call. Right. And even I don’t even the word sticking up for yourself is more so like, hey, like just providing more information, right? Because the truth is the truth is, is that so much just gets away from us on this Internet because there’s so many contributions that are not coming from the actual source. Right. So and and I think journalism has significantly changed where folks don’t go to the source. Right. Folks see a story and then they take from that story and then they make their story right. Whereas once upon a time, it was like, well, we can’t do this story unless we have an actual source that supports this story. And even then it was like, what is the source going to be out loud? Or are they going to be an anonymous source? Because we don’t want I mean, yeah, when we look at like when we look at like, you know, the Watergate scandal like that almost didn’t break. Almost didn’t come out because of Deep Throat not wanting to be outed. Right. And so I just I just really appreciate that. But I make that decision about being about not being scared. I make that decision like every week while I make that decision, like every week. And it’s like cancer season right now. So I’m just like, it’s like exceedingly emotional. But I make that decision every week and it ends up getting made ultimately because there’s so many folks that will, like, hit me up and say, like, you know, you being honest is helping me with my own self advocacy and, you know, you defending yourself and you really just not backing down from, you know, falsehoods about you, like has given me the empowerment to do the same for myself. But I think also honestly, girl, like, I really say that there’s anything endearing about this business that makes me say that I need to change who I am to be more adherent to it. The art is the best part of it, and even that has become so difficult to to get out into the world. Right. Shows get bought. They don’t get made. You know, I was I was just telling my manager this morning, like, there’s and I have this in my book also I talk about just the difference between my book. Small doses are actually available right here in paperback as well and out of all small doses. But I talk about just like the difference between your self worth and your market worth. Like you’ll know that you have the capability to do all of these things and, you know, to turn it around and, you know, to turn people up. But the market oftentimes will not get behind you doing that because you haven’t proven it yet. And so it begins to be one of those scenarios where it’s like you need the experience to get the job, but you need the job to get the experience. And so you keep having to chip away. You keep having to chip away and find new routes and new methods to get you the space to do what you do. Right now, I’m in a place where I’ve had to turn my thinking from trying to get an industry to pay attention to like what I consider to be my self-worth and instead put my energy to really just providing for the audience that’s provided for me. And that feels really much more holistic and much more sustainable. It’s like my mental health because it’s like literally counterintuitive to think that an industry that’s built on so many things that so many of us in the industry don’t even support, right? It’s just that it’s the only method for us to get out our dreams, so to speak. Yeah. So, you know, I make that decision on a regular basis, and I’m constantly just trying to be. Better at demonstrating. You know, I’m constantly trying to be better at not just saying what would a parent say? Like, don’t do as I say, say as I do. Like I’m constantly trying to be better at doing as I say. But when you’re when you’re in the public, it’s it’s a lonely place. It’s it’s a real lonely place. And when you’re in the public. And you are. Yeah. And you win like the. Authenticity is not like the law of this land. Like this is a country that the words alternative facts were put out there and people like supported it, ate it up and started using it. Like, you know, like the fact that like there was a new synonym for lying and people were like, yeah, you know, let’s, let’s, let’s do that. I think it’s just it’s just, you know, I’m a cancer and I’m a Virgo and I live a very tortured existence in that because I’m a very I’m a very sensitive person in that I’m a super analytical person. So you just find yourself in a in a space of constant vulnerability in a society that does not honor that in any real way. And I’ve had to be better about coming to safe spaces. It felt like a safe space to come on your podcast. You know, I’m saying and I appreciate that. And it’s it’s something that as a as a person, like not as like a person, not as like a celebrity or whatever, but just as a person I’ve had to be mindful of. And I think some people don’t understand how big and vast this Internet is and how different being a public person is now than it was like, you know, even 15 years ago, you know, like pre MySpace. It’s like you just do what you do and like, you know, if somebody talks about it, they talk about it. And so in the conversation around like people being afraid to be honest or being afraid to to speak to certain topics because they don’t want to lose their job. Like, I get that because it travels so much further now and it travels without as many obstacles of ethics. Yeah, you just don’t have the protection, you know? I mean, like, it’s just it doesn’t have the same thing. There was a situation I was in and people told me that I that I shouldn’t have taken legal action. And it’s one of the only regrets I have like in my life I have I have some regrets, but one of them is not having sued a particular individual for defamation of character because it follows me to this day, to this town, to this day, to this day. And but but I know that the people who are advising me in that we’re moving in the space of like, oh, you know, things, you know, it’s the world. It’ll go away. It’ll go away. But on this Internet, it’s not the case, baby.

Cortney Wills [00:34:58] Right. Right.

Amanda Seales [00:34:59] So I, I commend, though I commend the folks who not only stand in their truth, but who also they publicly support me chanting in my truth. And I feel like the one thing that that will will always bring me back to, like Amanda, just you got to just be yourself, is the fact that the elders that I respect respect me back. So Martina took a selfie with me the other day. She she was like, I want to take a selfie with you. And so, like, honestly, it’s life like the rest of your life, you know, your path and so forth and.

Cortney Wills [00:35:35] Everything that you said about like the change in being even a public figure of any kind, you know, in the last 10 to 15 years is so spot on. But when you talk about comedy, when you talk about comedians, I feel like y’all are like. Well, we don’t deserve you. Like we don’t deserve.

Cortney Wills [00:35:58] And I could think of a million examples, whether it’s Chappelle or the shit at the Oscars. But like, we don’t even deserve this art form that is comedy that has historically helped us grapple with get through, scratch the surface of, and start conversations about things that are just so great and so heavy and so terrifying. There was really no other method to even chip away at them then. Comedy. And now we’re in this universe. Where you all doing just that, you know, is is very likely to get you canceled or pulled. I mean, it’s like it’s like setting you up for failure. Every single time I really, like, can’t imagine what that must be like. And I talked to several comedians about what it’s like to be a comedian right now. And it’s a rich time. Like there’s lots of material, but it also sucks because it feels like either way you, you can’t win and that the rules have really changed. Comedy is no longer a place ghere everybody gets like everybody can laugh and get laughed at with equality. Even comedy has been, you know, polluted.

Amanda Seales [00:37:16] Well, you know, the truth is, is that we’re also just a hurt people. Right. And so, like, it’s a lot of people’s trauma that is dictating, like how they respond to certain things. Right. And so if you were teased about something and then, you know, by people who had the worst intentions for you and then a comic who doesn’t even know you, you know, but has the intentions of simply just like let’s, you know, deprecate everybody, including yourself. Right? And that person says something, then it’s very difficult for people to divorce the the uniqueness of those situations. Right. And I think that that’s the thing that’s really at the heart of it is this divorcing the difference between a comic doing what comics do, which is roasting, which is analyzing, which is self-deprecating and which is, at the end of the day, just trying to get laughter from folks. Right. Like that’s the goal. I think that there’s folks that don’t divorce that from the idea of laughing at someone’s expense, which is a different thing because. When you show up for a comedian to make people laugh, it’s going to be laughing at someone’s expense. Sometimes it’s going to be laughing at their own expense is going to be laughing at, you know, an inanimate object like it’s not. But I feel like it’s not at the expense. Like you were just laughing. And the goal is not that we’re laughing at someone’s expense, but that we’re laughing to to elevate our endorphins, you know, to get through the fuckery, etc.. I think that there’s a lot of people whose perspective is like if they have something that may not be a part of a mainstream idea of beauty or a mainstream idea of health, etc., and a comedian makes a joke about that. There’s a lot of people who find peace in that. There’s a lot of people who find like connection in that because they’re like it’s it’s a levity that’s being brought to the true gravitas of their experience. And that can be a relief for a lot of people. Right? So a lot of it is also subjectivity. And the truth of the fact is that comedians used to be in specifically comedic spaces. And so it’s like people are going there for that. I think a lot of times also people are coming to comedic spaces not to laugh, they’re coming to critique. It’s like it’s like with anything. These days, a lot of people aren’t reading a book to learn or reading a book to see what this writer wrote. They’re reading a book to talk about all the ways in which this could have been written better. Yeah. And I it’s a hard. So it’s not just a different place to be a comedian. Is it a place to be a creative and. There’s a crisis of conscience that happens when the folks that you feel like you’re creating for, when some of them are actually like weaponizing that against you. And it feels like, well, the natural reaction is like, my fuck, yeah, yeah, I’m saying then, then I’m not going to care about ya. But then your, your integrity and your knowledge of self kicks in and it’s like, well, I can’t let their misleading, I can’t let like their misinterpretation deter me from doing what I know to be the thing I’m supposed to be doing and that I’m not doing. And I’m not making that determination in a silo. You know, I think there’s a lot of folks who are telling themselves the same language. Right. But they’re doing so in a silo. They’re doing so without. Having anyone challenge them. It’s like people love to call me a narcissist, as if I’m just, like, on an island of myself. I’m just. I’m just. I’m just out here just with a with a verbal machine gun and nobody telling me shit, you know? And it’s like, yeah, that’s not that’s not it. Like, I have, I have a team of people that will absolutely be like, yeah, I don’t like that. You know, I have a man who will absolutely be like, Yeah, I don’t think you should do that. Like, and I feel like there’s also just like all these, like, buzzwords that people start using. And so when those are being applied to comedians to I’m just like, I don’t think y’all know what we’re here to do. I don’t think I know how to do when the whole Will Smith thing happened. I said what you just said. I said, You know, I don’t think ya’ll deserve comedians. Some of ya’ll need to watch This Is Us and get your cry on and let that be it.

Cortney Wills [00:41:48] Yeah, let that feed you and that’s funny because it’s funny you said that, This Is Us Inarguably, you know, a beautifully executed show. Some talented creatives behind it. I am very close with so many of the cast members, but like I don’t watch it because I don’t

Amanda Seales [00:42:07] You don’t be crying

Cortney Wills [00:42:12] I know it’s good. I’ll read about it, you know, like I’ll tell other people to watch it, but like, that’s not what I do. That’s not entertaining for me. But there are a whole bunch of people who absolutely want to look at misery, to feel better about their lives.

Amanda Seales [00:42:29] Catharsis. Yeah.

[00:42:31] I mean, you must be so annoying to those people, like people who hate on you. They have. You know, it must be very fun to, like, hate on you, because not only do you have the fact that you are smart, funny and Black going for you, but you are very self-possessed, like you will go and can go toe to toe with all of the foolishness and back it up. And that’s just got to be so grating for people.

Amanda Seales [00:43:00] If I, I mean, if I had the energy, I would do a show where it’s just like the title would be like, Come at me, bro. And it’s just like, what’s your grievance today? Like, it would be a court show, but like, I’m the defendant every time. Like, I think you’re muted. Wait, why can’t I hear you?

Cortney Wills [00:43:22] Oh, my mic was actin up. Can hear me now. Oh, I thought I’d watch that. And it’s actually might that in a second.

Amanda Seales [00:43:28] I’m just the defendant every time, you know, and I would just defend myself, you know, and there there really there would be a different judge. Just like every episode that I that we both agree on is a moral standing person. You know, I’ll have J.B. Smoove, you know, one episode. Next episode we have Tabitha Brown. You know, I’m saying it’s just like, what’s the issue? What’s the issue today? Yeah. You know, they’re just.

Cortney Wills [00:43:55] Like offend you today. She was doing backflips on her trampoline and you felt like she was showing off. And, you know, she called you fat, like, c’mon.

Amanda Seales [00:44:03] Oh, well, I did a video about being able to still fit my prom dress from 1999 and how excited I was about that. And people were upset and people said, you know, that me being excited about still being able to fit my prom dress from 99 was fat shaming. And that it was they said they people said that they felt like it was triggering because it makes people who can’t fit their prom just feel shameful. And I think that there’s a that’s a slippery slope when you can’t celebrate something that matters to you without it, without it, then adversely. I’m trying to think this through as I say it, but like I didn’t I didn’t really feel like that was a fair assessment because for me. Like I wasn’t saying like you should fit your prom dress from 99 too and if you, you know, like that wasn’t in it, it was just like, this is something that I was surprised I can do and. I’m celebrating it with ya.

Cortney Wills [00:45:13] You can’t do that. You can’t do that. You can’t say, like, Happy Father’s Day because there are so many people that do not have fathers. I will probably be edited out of this episode talking about my pregnancy now because there are so many listeners struggling with infertility. Like that’s a real thing that I think, you know.

Amanda Seales [00:45:32] What is it?

Cortney Wills [00:45:33] I don’t know. But it’s maddening. It’s very hard, you know, it feels, you know, and then you feel like an asshole because you want to sympathize with people who are struggling. Of course, plenty of people don’t have fathers, you know, or have troubled relationships with their fathers. And fathers day, of course, is like a hard day for them. But, you know, where do you draw the line between, like not dimming your light to me To make other people feel better or like like.

Amanda Seales [00:45:57] Or even just like asking questions, right? Like, I remember one time I had an editor that I had hired and she charged an hourly rate, but she but I didn’t know that she was breastfeeding while she was editing. And so when I got to the edit, like she spent quite a bit of time breastfeeding and not editing, but I was but I was being charged and I was like, Yeah, I don’t think that’s fair. And I mean, I got lambasted by people who were like, How dare you deny a mother her right to feed her child? And I just felt like I mean, because I had framed it as a question, like, is this if memory serves me correct, that framed it as a question like, is this cool? But I guess people took it, like, rhetorical. But I just, I mean, I couldn’t. Like, people were girl livid. Like, how dare you disrespect the necessity of a mother to still make money while feeding her child? And I didn’t feel like I was disrespecting that. I mean, I just felt like there’s, you know, there is a true kind of fairness that we would both have to come to in the fact that like. I’m paying an hourly rate, you know, and I just felt like maybe the compromise there is like, let’s come up with a flat rate where you can do what you need to do and then be able to still get the edit done. And I don’t feel like I am losing like the fairness of my compensation. But people the whole point of me bringing that up, though, was that like perspective is people’s truth. And now it’s become weaponized in so many ways that it makes it hard to truly like advance. And if if we’re being super duper honest the way that the reason why we are in the situation we are right now is because so many folks have just banded together in their ignorance that they’ve really found unity in their darkness. And the rest of us, I believe, have found ego in our intellect. Mm hmm. And I think that’s honestly been to our detriment. And we have found ego in our virtue. Yeah. There is so much virtue signaling going there.

Cortney Wills [00:48:35] Yup.

Amanda Seales [00:48:36] Of people trying to outdo the other person on who is the better person. It’s wild. And then you have people, you know, who just and so to me, like that ends up becoming that ends up becoming us doing the own work to divide ourselves.

Cortney Wills [00:48:52] Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda Seales [00:48:54] Because we are always. Go ahead. I’m sorry.

Cortney Wills [00:48:56] I was thinking, you know, and it just. It just so is even more division. It’s like never ending.

Amanda Seales [00:49:04] When I tell you. Like, I’m just. I’m just like, worn out. I’m worn out and I’m scared. And I’m just like. I’m just. I’m looking forward to just being able to actually just be on some stand up shit right now and not be on a set because it also can be, you know, sets can be two different kinds of spaces. They can either be like super duper like familial and, you know, just feeling like a safe space. And then they can also just be like really, really clinical and you know, just like we’re here to work premier 14 hours working and get it done. I did tab time the other day with Tabitha Brown and it was just so fun to like get to be on some children’s show. Share y’all going to see this episode and be like, Oh wow, because I was at this octave the entire time.

Cortney Wills [00:49:55] Oh, wow.

Amanda Seales [00:49:58] I leaned in, I was like, you know, just, you know, because for the kids, you know, we exaggerate a little bit. And I was like, You ain’t got to tell me twice. But it was it was a nice break. And then I got to do a Yara Shahidi show on Facebook. So we had a really incredible conversation. She’s just such a light and she’s so brilliant.

Cortney Wills [00:50:20] Probably got to see, Carrie, right?

Cortney Wills [00:50:21] And I mean, you know, she’s one them, what you say?

Cortney Wills [00:50:25] You probably got to see her mom, Carrie, there, who’s like equally as

Amanda Seales [00:50:28] Oh, yes, girl. Carrie was there.

Cortney Wills [00:50:31] You know what? I think I’m going to wake up tomorrow and be alot better now.

Amanda Seales [00:50:38] She was there, and she really did pour into me like she always does. And I was just like, thank you so much. And I think it’s just a time where we have to start trying to be better at being better. And then, you know, I just I feel I’m just being genuinely just honest, just as I’m I feel safe talking to you. I just I hate how people hate me. I hate it so much. And I know people are like, you shouldn’t care. I’m like, Whatever, I care, I hate it. And then someone will watch this and be like, Well, if you hate it so much, then stop cooking. And I’m just like, All right, whatever. You can’t win. You can’t win. Either way, people, you can’t win. You got to just like, keep on moving and that’s all you can do. But I shout out everybody listening who has, you know, come to a show or even just like, you know, commented on a post or who was like corrected me in kindness on a post that those listen, when people correct you with kindness, it is truly revolutionary in the internet space. Like when come when someone can say like, hey, I see what you were trying to say there, but here’s where you missed the mark and then they lay it out for you and they don’t at the end say do better, you know, or they don’t try to just undermine. Yeah, it really and it teaches you that like you can do that too. You know, we, we when that happens, y’all need to understand like I that is the spark of my day is when I mean, when I’m when I’m when I’m showing, like when I’m just on the like someone had some someone had said a nickname to me, someone certain, someone call me Mandy. And I was like, you know, that’s actually just for friends and family. I prefer to be called Amanda. And the person came back and was like, Oh, thank you for, you know, clearing that up. I appreciate it. Big fan and keep doing what you do. And so I shared that because I thought it was actually really dope that they received it without adding any color to it. Right. Because when you’re a direct person also, by the way, like, like it’s not in my nature to like put a lot of cloudy, flowery stuff around things. It’s just not, it’s not about disrespect is just like not in, in how my brain processes things. And so I have to do a lot of work to do that. I have to do a lot of work to come off as like what? This society cause is nice. I have to do a lot of like goop. I have to do a lot of, I mean, on downtime, like, because I really just want to talk like this all the time. Yeah, I want to be like this all the time. Kourtney hasn’t be able to talk like this all the time and not have people think I’m being mean. But you can’t. That’s just not what society is doing that. So I have to do it halfway. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And so I’d say all that to say that when I put it up, people were still there were still people that were like, that was rude of you to correct her. And it’s like, you’re not going to win those people. And win is not the word, but you’re not going to those people aren’t going to get what you’re doing because they have their own ideas about what correcting actually means. Right. And as somebody who’s in the profession of notes, you know, like, I can take a note, I can take a note. I love a good note. One of the best directors, Liesl, Tommy girl, Liesl Tommy directed an episode of Insecure and she could give you a notes or she could give you a now, you know? And it was the kind of notes that made you be a better performer. Prentiss. Prentiss can give you a Packard note because it’s Prentiss Penn. He was our showrunner on Insecure. He also is executive producer of APPLAUSE with Sam Jay and I love how Prentiss can correct and it’s always enhancing you without diminishing you. That’s something I am, like, really striving in my heart to be better at. You know, like, I feel like in my mind, Maya Angelou was like a gift at that. I don’t know if that’s true, but in my mind, I feel like she works. I feel like she was. But yeah. You know, the other thing, too, is that when you’re doing press and you promoting stuff like you’re just in conversations and you know, people take those conversations and do what they do with it. And, you know, all you can do is just continue to be true to self. And I wanna see Black folks when I really just want to see I want I want so much for us I want so much for us. And in the in the non monolithic ness of us, not everybody wants the same things for us. And that’s kind of the catch 22. We love to be like we are not a monolith, but then we are like, why isn’t everybody doing the same thing? Yeah, because we’re not a monolith. Yes, that’s why.

Cortney Wills [00:55:30] Yes, absolutely.

Amanda Seales [00:55:32] Oh my gosh.

Cortney Wills [00:55:34] So much to be exhausted about.

Amanda Seales [00:55:35] That’s right. So how are you? How are you? How are you staying? How do you stay? I’m now this is my interview. How are you staying? How do you stay, like upbeat and like as a parent and then a pregnant person with all of this going on? Like, it’s so important to also protect your energy and try and keep the protons poppin in the atomic makeup of the babies. Yeah. How do you do it?

Cortney Wills [00:56:05] Yeah, you know, I think I’m not like I think these babies are going to come out like, like one of the four it might be. Malcolm Yeah, but I think that like one might be Pac. Like I just think that they’re just going to come out like warriors because there’s just nothing that I can do to kind of squelch, you know, this fire. But it’s interesting as well.

Amanda Seales [00:56:29] Did you just say squelch?

Cortney Wills [00:56:29] Yes

Amanda Seales [00:56:30] I love a one syllable vocab word squelch.

Cortney Wills [00:56:35] Yeah, no, it’s true. Like I. I am watching a lot more content for fun instead of work because so much of my content for work is like slavery, oppression, abortion, police brutality. So I’m watching, you know, things that I usually don’t have time for. Like, I Love That For You. I love that show. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but it’s really funny.

Amanda Seales [00:56:56] Hey, I’m watching Jenifer Lewis.

Cortney Wills [00:56:58] Yeah, so silly. I’m watching things like that. And I am I’m also just embracing my attitude like I have that like, you know, oh yeah, I have an attitude. It’s like, shit is whack, I have an attitude that that’s what it is.

Amanda Seales [00:57:11] Say that I really have been dancing with that concept. Cortney I’m just like, I have an attitude. It’d be different if I felt like if if my work was about people not having attitudes, then I could see the anger in me having an attitude because it’s like you’re being a hypocrite. But that’s really not where I challenge folks from. I, I, Cortney I too have an attitude and I’ve had one because I like your Pac and Malcolm came out of my mother’s womb with a furled brow. She literally said she said that I literally came out, didn’t cry first, but my eyes were wide open and I looked around like, what the fuck is in here? And then was like, I will grace you with a cry like. But really, she said, I assessed she was like, I literally came out and assessed the room and then cried. I looked all the way around. She was like, It was bizarre because you your eyes opened and most baby’s eyes do not open for you like your fucking eyes opened. You had a full head of hair, you looked all the way around. And my mother has always very firmly believed that I came here as another stop on my soul’s journey. She’s always believed like. And she was never someone who was, like a believer in reincarnation. And so, like, I got here and she was like, I absolutely know that you were here before and that I was a vessel for you to come here again.

Cortney Wills [00:58:38] Wow. Wow.

Amanda Seales [00:58:40] So I feel like I’ve had an I feel like I’ve had an attitude, though, because I’m just like, I’m I’m I’m coming here worn out from when I was here before. Yeah, well.

Cortney Wills [00:58:51] I can’t believe I’m back here again. And this shit is so messed up. Yeah. No, totally. And your mom’s from Grenada, right? It’s all right.

Amanda Seales [00:58:58] Yes. My mother is from Grenada in the Caribbean.

Cortney Wills [00:59:02] Favorite place on the planet.

Amanda Seales [00:59:03] Damn, Cortney. I’m about to own that. I’m about to own that attitude.

Cortney Wills [00:59:07] Embrace your attitude. I have it. I’ll let you know when you can. Let yourself know when it’s gone because you’ll feel it. But right now it’s here. Except it. And it is what it is. Because that’s really just like all I have. That’s all I have for you right now.

Amanda Seales [00:59:20] I just you know, people are like, you’re angry, you’re bitter. And it’s like, I’m just. I just know. I just know a lot. And it weighs on me a lot. And I do a lot of work to try to not bring that to people that it has nothing to do with. And that’s not always like I’m not always good at it. And then that’s when the story comes. Like Amanda Seales was stank and I was like, I probably was. I probably was stank that day.

Cortney Wills [00:59:43] But like why are you not stank? Like, why are you not mad about this new yogurt? You know, like.

Amanda Seales [00:59:50] But why are you not stank?

Cortney Wills [00:59:55] That’s really how I feel.

Amanda Seales [00:59:56] Oh, this sounds like a bit. I need to develop this as a bit. I need to. I’m writing this down. I really. I really. It’s all about my mother. It’s from Grenada.

Cortney Wills [01:00:07] Favorite place on the planet.

Amanda Seales [01:00:08] My mother is, um, we have a latency issue. I keep thinking I’m talking over you, but we have a latency issue.

Cortney Wills [01:00:15] Oh, I think it’s my mike. It’s just being it also has an attitude. But I was going to tell you, I was in Grenada for two weeks last year. My friend that had a birthday party.

Amanda Seales [01:00:25] Why?

Cortney Wills [01:00:27] My friend Yvette turned 60 and she’s from Grenada. She had like this big.

Amanda Seales [01:00:30] Are you, like, talking about Yvette Sure?

Cortney Wills [01:00:32] Yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, great. So she took me to Grenada and I can’t stop thinking about moving there. I mean, I know they don’t want me and I don’t deserve it there, but I like every day I’m like, why am I here? I’m not there. It’s just such like a magical, beautiful place with people that are as a whole I’ve never met. More like welcoming, loving, adoring people. And I just like it boggles my mind that, you know anyone I know why but why anyone would leave there and come here and we’re all and, you know, we’re so ungrateful for, you know, not realizing the things that we as a country have to offer that other people don’t. But right now, I’m like, Man, I wish I could learn some trade that would be useful on Grenada and contribute to their society and they would let me in.

Amanda Seales [01:01:26] Agriculture baby. Get you agriculture on. You better learn how to how to grow some nutmeg.

Cortney Wills [01:01:30] Right be a nutmeg chef.

Amanda Seales [01:01:35] Oh, God.

Cortney Wills [01:01:36] But when I was there, I thought of you because I knew you were the only person, other person I knew that whose family was from there.

Amanda Seales [01:01:42] Well, you know, Grenada just got a new prime minister. It’s a very big feat in Grenada’s political movements. You know, we’ve had the same prime minister in Grenada, Keith Mitchell, for dictatorial levels of time. Okay. And to see a new prime minister come into party from come into place from an opposing party, you know, a younger person, I’m not trying to be a but you know, I think there is a validity to the fact that the world is ever changing and that if people are not going to continue to grow and change with the times, then they need to move over. You know, like my mother is somebody who is 75 and, you know, went to learn how to use her iPhone. Right. And like is making it her business to try to understand, you know, the context of everything that’s continuing to go on in this world that she continues to live in. But a lot of folks get into a position where they don’t have to because they’re in a bubble and that’s that. So to have somebody coming into position that isn’t in that bubble, that’s a former teacher and that’s a lawyer and is of the of the people. I think people are really excited about it. And people is in the street and jamming and, you know, making bacchanalia and what not. And I think it was I think it’s going to be well, let me say this. Not to put the cart before the horse, but I think it has the possibility to be a real turning point to do exactly what you’re talking about, though, which is to encourage folks to stay in Grenada and build a life in Grenada and be able to have the resources to do so in a way that they may not have felt they could before. And it also, you know, as a dual citizen, as I look at the decline of this country, I also am very aware of the privilege that I have in being able to possibly say, you know what, you know, that’s a possible option for me were things to go so far left that I didn’t feel like I could sustain here and I would do a Baldwin and get the fuck out. I got a girl take me with you place. But I just I feel like it’s important to acknowledge like, I know that that’s a privilege. Like, I know that, you know, I know that I know that I know that. And when people ask me, Amanda, where do we go? Where do we go, you know, as a Black American community? We are we we are a unique people. We are, I think, in the story of us, because we’re still in a very early stage, in the story of us. But we are a nomadic people. How we, you know, and by force and by circumstance. And I’m I’m hoping that, you know, we’re we to continue to have to be that it can be by choice. And the problem is that we are in a position right now where it continues to be by force or by circumstance, because if people are leaving this country at this point, it is not because necessarily they want to. It’s because they feel they have to. Yeah. And that, again, continues to plague our own ES of our own liberation. And that’s, you know, that sucks. And that’s that sucks. That’s the understatement of the of the bicentennial that that’s but I’m about to be 41 on July 1st and your birthday. Thank you shots. All my cancer is out there. You know we just gonna keep on crying and keep on crying and being loyal to a fault. That’s the other part. It’s like y’all gave me as much as you want. I’m still right. So I’m thinkin, like, we just. We lie a lie once we once we end it, we like we’re here. So that’s what it’s gonna be. But I’m excited to get on this road, girl. I really I really those shows in Bria, we’re just, you know, with the shows and Bria showed me show me that I’ve become a better comic and that was cool to see because, you know, you oh like so yeah like I can not really still like get better at things, but after the first show on Friday night, I was like really tired and I just kind of decided like, Oh, well, I guess that’s it. Like, I’m not going to like, have anything else to give this next audience. I’m just going to have to figure it out. But then something in the back of my head was like, I mean, just have a good time, like, you know, and I had, like, I had like written down some premises of things I wanted to talk about. And I went on stage and I talked about those things that I had written down, and I had a great time. And that being like an exceptionally good show that was exceeding the bar that I had already set for myself, which is really high. But it was like it’s like a, like when you can call upon your magic that always feels like really empowering. Like, you know, when you can call up your magic, you’re like, Oh yes. So if you want to come to the show and see me call upon my magic?

Cortney Wills [01:07:05]  it was nice to see you in your element, again.vI’m sorry. Keep talking over. Yeah.

Amanda Seales [01:07:10] Yeah. No, it’s not. You’re not. It’s just we. It’s technically. See this is the digital, not the analog.

Cortney Wills [01:07:19] If you have not

Amanda Seales [01:07:21] If you want to come see me in my element.

Cortney Wills [01:07:29] You go, you go. I’m going to be quiet.

Amanda Seales [01:07:34] If you want to come and see me in my element like Cortney got to then go to Amanda Seales dot com the Amanda Seales Black Eyes Again tour is going down We are doing not just stand up shows but also my variety game show smart, funny and Black. It is a incredible community. Loving and hilarious experience. Will be at the DC Kennedy Center in Washington DC on the 23rd. No, sorry, on the on July 22nd. I’m actually doing a residency there, so I’ll be doing three projects there on the 22nd and 23rd. Then you can catch me doing stand up in in Raleigh, North Carolina on July 15th, 16th and 17th. And you can see me right here in L.A. at the Novo with smart money in Black. And there’s a bunch of other dates. I’m hitting the Midwest, I’m hitting the South, I’m even hitting the northwest. So, you know, all you Black people, all 25 Black people in Portland, Oregon, I’m coming to see you. So that’s how it’s gonna be. Make sure you continue to check because we’re adding dates now. You may look at the dates and be like, Where’s Chicago? Where’s Dallas? Where’s the bay? We’re working on it and we’re getting it there for you because you asked.

Cortney Wills [01:08:50] Thank you so much for joining me today. Amanda, I could talk to you forever, but I know I have to let you go, but this was such a pleasure. So nice to catch up. So great seeing your show and it’s so happy that you continue to do the work that you do that we all so desperately need and admire.

Amanda Seales [01:09:08] Thank you. And you know, if you’re not able to make it out to a show, you can listen to Smart, Funny and Black Radio every Monday at 7 a.m. Pacific, 10 a.m. Eastern on Sirius Satellite Radio. And if you don’t have a subscription, you can still listen to us wherever you get your podcasts. So just look for smart, funny and Black radio.

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