The Changing Shape of Work - Part 1

On today's episode of the 5 Things podcast:

It seems to be a new era in the workplace. The COVID-19 pandemic brought unprecedented changes that have forced employers and employees to shift and do things differently.

The team at 5 Things sat down and talked to Randstad CEO Rebecca Henderson about what the new norm seems to be when it comes to what employees can expect from employers; including telecommuting and greater flexibility. She also talks about a generational shift on norms, expectations and dynamics.

She also gives five tips for businesses looking to hire right now.

But first, 5 Things spoke with Morgan Hines, a food reporter at USA TODAY about her experience heading back into the office after working from home for two years and what tips she has for anyone finding themselves in the same boat.

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Hit play on the player above to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript below. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

James Brown: Hello, and welcome to Five Things. I'm James Brown. It's Sunday, July 10th, 2022. On Sundays, we do things a bit differently focusing on one topic instead of five. And this week is about the changing shape of work. We'll hear from staffing giant Randstad CEO, Rebecca Henderson, on the job market, and what employees expect from employers.

Rebecca Henders...: If you are a bank and people don't like to bank with you because your service isn't great, then they may not want to work for you either.

James Brown: You'll hear more from Rebecca in a bit. But first we begin with my colleague Morgan Hines on remote work and her experience headed back into the office.

Morgan Hines: I actually had been a fairly new enter to the working from office, I guess, system. I had finished grad school in 2019 and started working from USA Today's bureau in McClean, Virginia over the summer of 2019. And then was in the New York city bureau from there on out through March, 2020.

It was a shift because I think everyone was going through it, but it was something that I felt prepared for. On the other hand, though, the return to office has been a little bit more challenging just because of the fact that routine was kind of lost during the pandemic to a degree. So I wasn't going into the gym or meeting friends or filling my schedule the way I typically had pre-pandemic. Trying to balance things is not going as swimmingly as I had hoped to return to that routine off the bat, if that makes sense?

I haven't been to a gym that I have a membership at since the pandemic started. I now work out at home and have spent the last more than two years in workout clothes and without makeup and without doing my hair. So all those things take time and I think that being prepared, not only in the sense of getting yourself ready to be in a public place for a day, but also thinking of all the things you need to bring into the office is something that I almost forgot how to do. So remembering snacks, remembering an extra toothbrush just in case you get something in your teeth that you eat, remembering extra pens, lipstick, mascara. Remembering your keys, I'd forgotten those before. All the little things that you need and the nuances of office work life too.

I don't know if I touched on this in the piece as much, but I think it's really important to be patient with ourselves. We're experiencing an environmental shift when we do something like make a return to office or hybrid return to office, and that's just going to take some time to get used to. And so I think allow yourself a little grace and maybe bring a stain stick with you. I tend to spill a lot and forgot what that's like in public places.

James Brown: Now my conversation with Rebecca Henderson. Rebecca, welcome to Five Things.

Rebecca Henders...: Thank you, James. Thanks for having me today.

James Brown: If you would tell us a bit about you and where are you located?

Rebecca Henders...: Well today I am coming to you from Carmel-by-the-Sea. I'm definitely one of those people taking advantage of work from anywhere right now. I'm usually home based in Dallas and my office is in the Netherlands. But today I get to be in lovely Carmel and it's 70 degrees and sunny. So I'm very happy to be here and joining you today.

Just maybe a little bit about myself, you got the title right. I work for the largest staffing company in the world. On any given day, we have about 750,000 people out on assignment. And we place north of two and a half million people a year in permanent jobs. That's my passion is getting people into the workplace. But my personal passion absolutely is to see more women in the workplace with higher paying jobs. And if we can work on that, then we have more access to childcare. And then that's a nice self perpetual circle where women can get even into higher level jobs. I was a single mom for somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 years and so I know the struggle is real and I sympathize.

James Brown: That's an interesting point. That reminds me of some of the responses we received on social media. A number of people were asking about the people who have disappeared from the workforce. From the data I've seen, they've been mostly women. Does that reflect your experiences in your role?

Rebecca Henders...: Well, saw it in our own company at Randstad, saw it at our customer's organizations. I think the overall labor participation rate is coming back to what it was pre-pandemic levels. I mean, the mix of the type of people coming back in the workforce are different. Not all of the people who left the workforce during the pandemic have come back and that continues to be women.

And it's not just the women in the lower wage categories, but also in the higher wage categories. In my own organization had director level women who quit during the pandemic, their children were home. They had young school age children, their children were home from school and they really felt it was impossible to do their job while their children were home from school. And even when schools opened back up, it was fairly sporadic. So you go back to school, the kids would go back to school for a few weeks and then before you know it there'd be an outbreak and they'd go back home or the schools would close. And if you're a female executive, someone with leadership responsibilities, it's hard to be consistent and do your job. And I think there's still a lot of women that are afraid to come back based on that.

James Brown: That trickle of people out of the workforce, largely women but not just women, I would imagine that might be in jeopardy by the overall economic anxiety of the moment. I know as things get more uncertain, companies generally slow down in terms of hiring.

Rebecca Henders...: But James, we haven't seen that yet, that slow down. Because there is still a shortage for skilled workers, not just in the U.S. but frankly in all the developed countries around the world. So that slow down hasn't materialized. I still think you're seeing this sort of great reshuffle or redistribution. And people moving jobs, because let's just go back to the example of women who want to stay in the workforce, who need to stay in the workforce, but aren't getting the flexibility they need from their current employer. And they're moving on to the ones that are saying, "Sure, you can work from home. Sure." I've seen employers experimenting with four day work weeks, for example. So if you're not getting what you want in your current employer, you're leaving. Also the level of wage inflation, you know how it goes, sometimes in your current employer you're getting a small raise. But in the period of great wage inflation, you move on to the next one and you're getting a much bigger increase.

So there's this great reshuffle, I think, is still taking place. There's still a shortage of skilled workers in the workforce. Some people, yes, the economy will say less people will retire, some skills will stay in. But there are still enough people that retired during the pandemic that won't come back into the workforce full time that has left a skill gap.

So luckily we haven't seen the slowdown on employment. In some of some sectors, the tech sector in the Bay area, yes, you've seen pockets of slow down. But in general, we haven't seen it yet.

James Brown: Thankfully. So there's more time to get in. I would I'd imagine in other sectors outside of tech.

Rebecca Henders...: Yeah, absolutely. And I think now's the time. If you're not at a employer that's valuing you as an employee and your skills and the things that you bring to the table and allowing you to work in the environment that helps you be successful, then now's the time to still look because those jobs are still open. The wages for hourly workers are going up. That's where we've seen the biggest increase in wages is for hourly workers. I think that's a positive recognition. Even for some of the day to day risks hourly workers were taking and still take working in a pandemic in environment.

So I think overall, right, we're happy with the levels of participation kind of equaling out from pre-pandemic. I still think there are dollars to be recovered in the economy for the level of women that have left the workforce. I've seen all kinds of numbers on this, but as much as half a trillion dollars in economic value loss by the women who left the workforce that have taken much longer to your point earlier to return to the norms. But I do think it we're getting much closer to closing the gap.

James Brown: You mentioned the great reshuffle. I've heard it called lots of things from the great resignation to just sort of this rethinking of where and how you work. You're working in multiple places. You've bounced around, you're in Carmel now. What other changes have we sort of seen employers have to implement to keep workers satisfied as we sort of trickle back into the offices?

Rebecca Henders...: Well, definitely the opportunity to work from where you want to work. I mean, that one's almost a given now, unless you're Elon and Tesla and you're going back into the office. And there are other big employers that have made that statement or have been more prescribed with how many days. There are just as many employers who have said you can work from anywhere you want and there's no change in your pay, just get your job done. But that one first and foremost.

But also I think the other things we're seeing implemented is an acknowledgement on the time and being more flexible. So I know there are companies, several tech companies experimenting with four day work weeks. So working longer hours and taking Friday off, I think that's been positive. Now not all businesses can do that, but certainly professional skill set businesses can. But a recognition of working when you can, or if you're gone at four o'clock in the afternoon for soccer game that's okay. Right? So there's that.

We're seeing more sabbaticals come into play, so work three years and then take a three month paid sabbatical. That one I'm seeing quite more frequently. One that we've adopted at Randstad in the U.S. is we've lowered the benefits threshold. So you could work part-time and still get full benefits. So it's kind of encouraging people to stay in the workforce by taking advantage of benefits. Credits for childcare is the other one that we're seeing. You are able to get more robust childcare options and having your organization participate in some of the cost of that.

So I've seen all of those on the table, a portion of those on the table. Flexible work arrangements is almost like a table stake at these days. It's some of the other things that are really attracting workers to change jobs.

James Brown: When I think of all those changes, because I'm 38, I think of the beginning of-

Rebecca Henders...: You're just a kid.

James Brown: Thank you. But I think at the very beginning of my career at 22, 23, just getting out of college, it seems like there has been a shift in philosophy that the employers have to bend more to the potential employee more than the employee bending for the employer.

Rebecca Henders...: No, but I think there's two things. Certainly, you have more power as an employee today. The shortage of skilled workers and if you're a skilled worker, you have more power and you have more choices. So that's absolutely there. But I also think it's generational or cultural. So I'm 58 years old, but I have a daughter who she's going to hate that I'm saying this if she's listening, that she's soon to be 38. And then another one who's soon to be 36 and then 30 and then 23. And the difference between the 23 year old and the 38 year old is very different. The 38 year old feels a certain obligation to her employer. The 23 year old is, what have you done for me lately? Right?

And it's not just him. It's my 25 year old niece and my other 25 year old nephews, a very different view of the role of the employer and employee relationship. And I think that's just generational. That generation has an appreciation for other things in the world as well, whether it's the environment or the other social issues, more so than I think the generation above them. So be because they're thinking about other things and their role in society and social issues, their employer has to follow along.

James Brown: So a generational shift in terms of norms, expectations, and dynamics?

Rebecca Henders...: Absolutely.

James Brown: What types of roles are tough to fill these days? And are there parts of the country where hiring is more difficult than others?

Rebecca Henders...: I think the standards still apply. Right? Engineers and IT professionals in Silicon Valley, still a difficult role to fill. Having said that, there's a lot more flexibility as to where those roles are being filled now. And so if you're looking for folks in those areas, if you're flexible, the need to compete sort of goes away, right? So if you're a retail company looking to hire engineers in the Bay area, you're going to compete with Google and Cisco and Meta and all of that and forget it. Right?

Now, if you're going to compete for that role or you're willing to hire that role in Iowa, some other part of the country, you can very well get your hands on some really awesome talent because they've migrated out the Bay area because it's too expensive to live there, or you can't buy a house, all the things that go along with living in the Bay area. So I think, it's by geography again. But it gets easier if you're willing to be more flexible. But IT professionals, engineers, developers, I still think that's top of the list of difficult positions to fill.

But what I think is interesting is sort of the newer roles that are emerging as a result of technology. So whether those are roles in AI, data scientists, that's probably one of the toughest jobs there is to fill right now, regardless of where you're at. And frankly, if you're a good data scientist today, you could probably live wherever you want and probably command whatever salary you want. It's probably a little aggressive, but with within reason. But it's a difficult job to fill but that's almost a job that five or six years ago people would go, "What data scientist? Why is that? Oh, I don't know what that is." But I think the newer jobs that are being created as a result of technology are difficult to fill.

The marketing analytic type roles, those are difficult jobs to fill. So the folks who are saying, "James, I know on Tuesday, you're going to think about buying cereal. And I know you like Honey Grahams cereal, so you're going to get an ad on that day." And those are a little bit along the line of data scientists, but those marketing science type roles are also difficult to fill right now.

James Brown: Since we're on Five Things, what five tips would you give to a business looking to hire in this market?

Rebecca Henders...: Well, tip number one, I would make sure your brand as an employer is current. So for example, if you're a bank and people don't like to bank with you because your service isn't great, then they may not want to work for you either. So ensuring that your brand as an employer, you're not only just well respected by your customers but people would want to work for you for the following reasons. You're socially responsible. You encourage a diverse workforce. You have flexible hours, all of those things. I think that one is critical and first and foremost. Because if you've ever been on Glassdoor or you've been on Blind, like you talk about your Uber experience, you're talking about your experience as an employer. So managing your brand as an employer is critical.

The second one is to have a easy recruitment process. If I have to go to your website and I have to apply before somebody can talk to me. And then the first time I get a letter that rejects me, but then somebody calls me or I have to do 20 panel interviews. The people don't want to invest the time. It's a robust job market, so have a streamlined recruitment process that makes it easy for people to engage. And then treat your candidate with a lot of respect, whether they get the job or don't get the job. Call them back, tell them why, and be proactive with your candidate database.

The third one is a dovetail of that. There are going to be people you look at and think about recruiting and they don't get the job because you only have one job to fill. But those are what you call your silver medalist and be proactive with the people inside your current database. And before you post the next job, look at your silver medalist and see if they're candidates for the next job. So sort of that proactive management of your current candidate database and how you treat them and how you work with them and how you stay in contact with them, because that will shorten your time to hire. And you've already vetted that person, you know they're a good cultural fit you just have to find the right job for them. So that is sort of my third one.

The fourth one is to be obviously competitive in the marketplace. Pay is important. It's not always the first thing, but are you competitive? Are your benefits competitive? Are you offering the flexibility? Do you really, really, truly understand what your workforce wants?

And then the last one is engage. Engage with your workforce. By the way, the number one source of candidates for any company is referral. That's the number one source. And so engage with your current workforce. I know for us, we just added a question to our engagement survey is, do you feel like you belong? Not, do we have a diverse work environment? Do you feel like you belong? Is this a place where you can come and be your whole self, your true self? And so I think engaging with your current workforce, asking what they like about being there, what they don't like about being there, do they feel like they can bring the whole self to work? That helps you keep your current workforce, so you reduce your turnover but also helps you decide the kind of individual you want in the future.

James Brown: This is part one of a two parter on the state of the job market. We ask for your questions about work and next Sunday, Rebecca will have plenty of answers for us.

If you like this episode, write us a review on Apple podcast or wherever you're listening. And do me a favor? Share it with a friend. How do you feel about work right now? Send me an email at jabrown@usatoday.com or find me on Twitter at James Brown TV. I love hearing from you.

Thanks to Rebecca and Morgan for joining me. Thanks to Alexis Gustin for our production assistance. Taylor Wilson will be back tomorrow morning with five things you need to know for Monday. And from all of us at USA Today, thanks for listening. I'm James Brown. And as always, be well.

This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: 5 Things Podcast: The Changing Shape of Work - Part 1