Conversation: Is Ohio's abortion law ''quite barbaric' or saving 'innocent victims?'
With Roe v. Wade overturned nationally and the so-called "heartbeat bill" now law in Ohio, does abortion have a future in here or will it soon be a thing of the past?
Opinion editor Amelia Robinson posed that question and others recently during “The Dispatch presents Columbus Conversations: What is the future of abortion in Ohio?"
More: Who can be charged? What about ectopic pregnancy? What to know about Ohio's 6-week abortion ban
The Columbus Conversation town hall series features discussion of matters important to residents of Greater Columbus and other Ohioans.
The panelists were:
Cindi Boston, vice president of Heartbeat International
Allie Frazier, executive director of Right to Life of Northeast Ohio
Kellie Copeland, executive director of Pro-Choice Ohio
Desiree Tims, president and CEO of Innovation Ohio
Rep. Allison Russo, Ohio House minority leader (D-Upper Arlington)
Dr. Alison Norris, co-principal investigator of Ohio Policy Evaluation Network (OPEN) and an associate professor in the Ohio State University College of Public Health
Jessie Balmert of the USA TODAY Ohio Bureau also helped with the discussion.
Excerpts of the hour-long event are below. The full discussion can be found on Dispatch.com (bit.ly/DispatchAbortionConversation) and the newspaper's Facebook page and YouTube channel: bit.ly/FBColumbusConversationAbortion and bit.ly/YoutubeAbortionConversation. Full audio of the conversation can be found on the "Then What Happened" podcast feed.
Find it on Dispatch.com, Apple Podcast, Spotify and where ever else you find your favorite shows.
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In addition to the topics below, panelists discussed a list of issues that included sex education, ectopic pregnancies, accountability for male partners, when life begins and abstinence education.
On the heels of news that a 10-year-old girl traveled to Indiana for an abortion, reader Dave Celebrezze wanted to know what panelists thought of abortion in the case of pregnant children and other rape and/or incest survivors?
More: 10-year-old who sought abortion was rare case. Fewer minors in Ohio are getting procedure
Russo: Ohio abortion law is 'quite barbaric'
We unfortunately will begin to hear many more cases like this.
A 10-year-old girl who was sexually abused discovered that she was pregnant by her rapist.
Because that discovery happened at six weeks and three days, she was forced with the decision to go across state lines to seek an abortion. Otherwise the state of Ohio and the existence of the six-week abortion ban would force this 10-year-old child into childbirth, which to me, is quite barbaric.
More: As Ohio restricts abortions, 10-year-old girl travels to Indiana for procedure
I think anyone who has heard this case — and again, there will be many more cases like this — is horrified, and this is just an example of how extreme these pieces of legislation are for women and for girls.
This is very out of touch with where most Americans are on this issue and specifically, Ohioans.
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We know that more than 60% of Ohioans support the protections that were in place because of Roe and we're just going to see more horrifying cases like this as time goes on, and I think also we're going to see more extremism in the legislature getting more and more restrictive.
We already have some legislators discussing banning some forms of contraception.
This is just completely out of touch with where most Ohioans and their families are, and this is an attack on fundamental freedoms to make these important health care decisions.
Frazier: 'Both mom and baby in that scenario have been horribly victimized'
I was left with so many questions. I think one of the big questions I had was the article seemed somewhat devoid of describing what had happened to her abuser. If legal action had been taken and that sort of thing.
That left me concerned.
I understand that since this victim was really young that kind of probably played into what truly could be shared safely about her and about this situation that is so heartbreaking.
My heart just went out to this girl who had been absolutely failed by the system.
My heart was broken because I know that sexual assault is one of the most deeply personal and painful things that a person can experience, especially as a woman.
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I think part of what broke my heart so much is I saw a lot of pro-abortion sources and people who would lean more to the pro-choice side using this girl’s story as cover to push their agenda and that didn’t set right with me at all. That honestly just broke my heart in pieces.
The pro-life movement, our view on these incredibly heartbreaking cases is that abortion creates a new victim and abortion perpetuates the violence that is leveled against innocent victims.
More: Columbus on Roe v. Wade's end: Dispatch readers share their thoughts on Dobbs decision
This innocent young girl deserves every single bit of emotional, medical and spiritual support she can possibly get. But my heart also breaks for her because I know that ultimately at some point this way that she has been horribly hurt, abortion is an extension of that.
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She not only is going to have to move on in her life and deal with the fact that something so horrible has been perpetuated against her, but now she's also going to have to carry the knowledge as well that abortion was part of that story as well.
We believe that both mom and baby in that scenario have been horribly victimized. The question now is how do we move forward in a way that’s nonviolent? How do we provide all the support possible? How do we heal with love?
Copeland: "We warned legislators that this would happen"
All of that concern is cold comfort to someone who has been sexually assaulted and is faced with a pregnancy as a result of that. To be frank, I object to the categorization that anyone used that as cover.
We warned legislators that this would happen. Anti-choice legislators proceeded with all of these bans anyway. So this is the agenda that they passed and these are the results of that agenda.
More: What to know about abortion in Ohio, post-Roe v. Wade
I want to say very clearly that any reason a person chooses to have an abortion is a good reason.
I trust people to make their own medical decisions.
I want to be very clear to everyone watching who has had an abortion, who may need an abortion, who is pregnant and is concerned about whether or not they will get treatment that they may need if there's a complication.
I want you to know that we at Pro-Choice Ohio, Ohio's abortion funds, Ohio abortion providers and medical organizations across the state — we support you.
We will never stop working to make sure that you can get the health care — and abortion is health care. That you can get that locally without having to cross state borders. That you can get that without having to justify it to anyone — without political interference, without stigma, without financial barriers and without delays.
People are being forced to seek care out of state, some people will self-manage their abortions and face potentially criminalization.
That should never happen — not in Ohio, not in any state in this country. That is a fundamental human rights abuse, It's not something that is consistent with Ohio values. This is something that is an extreme agenda and the only reason that's been allowed to go into effect is because the Statehouse has been so severely gerrymandered that we have this manufactured anti-choice majority in the legislature who is imposing their view on the citizens of Ohio
Reader Dianne L. Reid wanted to know if Ohio would restrict access to birth control options?
Tims: 'Pay attention to the language that is being implemented into these bills'
It's very scary that we're seeing bills being introduced and talked about in a way that would really lean into banning birth control.
We are talking about IUDs. We are talking about birth control pills. A lot of this legislation is being drafted by outsiders and pushed by men who don't understand how a menstrual cycle works. They don't understand why people are on birth control. They have no idea. They are just concerned with their MAGA extreme agenda and so it is going to have real effects.
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We need to pay attention to the language that is being implemented into these bills.
Pay attention to the hearings. Pay attention to what they're saying because when we get into talking about the criminalization of it all, I don't know how many licensed physicians are going to risk their medical license offering that care because there's a real fear of losing their medical license — their ability to practice and their ability to save lives.
Reader Marie Kalinowski asked how schools, hospitals, foster care and other social services would be impacted by restricted abortion and how increased costs will be paid.
Russo: Support for children has been 'severely underfunded' for decades
One in five children currently lives in poverty in this state — not a coincidence.
One in five women also lives in poverty in this state. We have 25,000 children who are currently, at some point, going through the foster care system here in Ohio.
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Ohio has some of the worst — when I say the worst, the bottom 10 worst outcomes for children in the foster care system.
It gets even worse if you are a Black or brown child, or if you live in Appalachia. The reality is that children and women are already not doing well in this state.
To hear that suddenly, these anti-abortion groups are going to step up and fight for women and children is frustrating.
The reality is that for well over a decade, Democrats have been fighting for paid family leave, for affordable child care, for making sure that families have access to things like affordable diapers and affordable infant formula.
More: With most abortions banned, Ohio must do more for help parentless kids | Our View
Pregnancy accommodations in the workplace, equal pay for women — all of these things that we know build and uplift women and children and families.
The reality is all of those things have been severely underfunded including the foster care system here in the state of Ohio.
To suddenly think groups are going to come to the table and turn this ship around when literally we’ve had decades to do this is extremely frustrating.
I, too, want to know what is the commitment and this need is going to get worse as we continue to take away the fundamental freedoms of women and families to make decisions about whether or not to start a family.
Nancy Mayle wondered if pro-life organization would consider promised support long-term.
Cindi Boston: 'Pregnancy help centers will go a long distance with a young mom'
The pregnancy help community, they haven't planned to do it, they are doing it.
They are helping young couples, they are helping single moms. They’re repairing cars. They're holding babies while mom is going to community classes to finish up a GED and their college education.
They're reaching out and they're giving all kinds of supplies to them. They're mentoring them. They’re life-coaching them. They're helping them create a more positive future and they are doing that right here in Ohio.
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Pregnancy help centers will go a long distance with a young mom, with a young family that needs help. A lot of times what we find is they self-select when they want to be done.
They find out they’re at a point where they are thriving, and then they might reach out back to us occasionally. We help them then.
It’s one of those things where we don’t have a definitive time of service.
We have a caring arm and we do whatever we can to assist them, whatever is feasible. We’re also helping teach parenting classes, we’re doing nutrition so children are healthy.
We’re doing all those things long-term, that way we’re creating a healthier family unit.
Rabbi Rick Kellner says the life of the mother takes precedence over the life of the fetus in Jewish law. He questioned if the heartbeat law violates religious freedom.
Norris: 'There's really a lot of complex nuance'
The explanation that Jewish law puts the life of a pregnant person over the life of the fetus is something that a lot of Ohioans feel. Jewish Ohioans and Ohioans who are from every faith strongly feel that the life of a woman or child who is (alive) holds tremendous value and potential value should not be put in front of that.
That speaks broadly to the religious freedoms — the religious beliefs, the ethical beliefs — of the majority of people in the state.
Across the state, there's really a lot of complex nuance in how people think about abortion: 53% are very supportive, 30% have mixed feelings, 17% are unsupportive of abortion.
That’s a really nuanced environment and the law that we have in front of us now is not nuanced. It represents a very far, small, narrow piece of the beliefs about abortion in Ohio.
Tims: The Supreme Court backtracked on Founding Fathers' principles
We are just coming off of July 4th — Independence Day. We're talking about our freedom as a country.
What we saw in (Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization) from the Supreme Court's far right majority opinion is they are not honoring the separation of church and state. This is happening at a level that is really alarming.
I'm Christian, but I'm not going to impose my Christian beliefs on everyone on this panel.
I believe in the separation of church and state.
That's why we have the Constitution.
That's why the document is so sacred and really honored and followed to a tee until this year when we saw the Supreme Court backtrack on some of the principles of our Founding Fathers.
Religious freedoms and the separation of church and state are at risk right now because of Dobbs and because of some of the things we saw in Justice Thomas concurring opinion where he's like, "go after everything, attack everything."
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Allie Frazier: 'Religion does not give us the right to end a distinct human life'
Even religious freedom has caveats. My religious freedom doesn’t allow me to go and hurt someone horribly. Religious freedom is within the bounds of the rights we have as Americans, both of faith and not of faith, to live free of violence.
That is an important conversation to have when we’re talking about the connection between abortion and religion. Religion does not give us the right to end a distinct human life.
This article originally appeared on The Columbus Dispatch: Watch Columbus Conversation: What is the future of abortion in Ohio
