Covid inquiry: Richard Pengelly questioned over pandemic leadership
The top civil servant at the Health Department during the Covid pandemic has been challenged over who should have taken the lead advising Stormont departments at the start of the crisis.
Richard Pengelly testified at the UK Covid inquiry, sitting in Belfast.
He was questioned by inquiry chairwoman Baroness Hallett.
He said his department led the health response, but did not believe it was responsible for taking the lead for other parts of government.
He said his department "cannot dictate or mandate other departments".
Baroness Hallett replied that the department may not be able to "dictate" to other departments, but she suggested "you can lead".
"Forgive me, I don't understand what lead means if it doesn't?" Mr Pengelly asked her.
"As in encouraging others to check that their resilience is better, getting them prepared?" Baroness Hallett replied.
Mr Pengelly suggested that was in fact the role of civil contingencies planners, through Stormont's Executive Office.
His evidence was part of week two of the inquiry's sitting in Northern Ireland.
The inquiry's lead counsel is continuing to look at who exactly was in charge and taking he lead on preparing for the impact of a global pandemic.
What did the Covid Inquiry in Belfast hear?
Mr Pengelly's evidence was part of week two of the inquiry's sitting in Northern Ireland.
The inquiry's lead counsel is continuing to look at who exactly was in charge and taking he lead on preparing for the impact of a global pandemic.
The inquiry was told that, by the end of January 2020, Northern Ireland was aware of two different scenarios provided by the UK government, which outlined the potential impact of massive loss of life as the virus began to take hold around the world.
Mr Pengelly insisted that in February 2020, as the virus began to spread in Europe, it was not the responsibility of the Department of Health (DoH) to be the lead department co-ordinating cross-departmental response.
"We weren't yet calling for the establishment of the crisis management arrangements in Northern Ireland, we were focused on health," he said.
Later, when challenged by Baroness Hallett that health should have been taking the lead, Mr Pengelly said in this "very early stage" the department was focussing on its own response.
Mr Pengelly said it was the role of the Executive Office to take the lead at that time.
'Ridiculously long days'
Elsewhere Mr Pengelly also discussed:
The triggering of Northern Ireland's emergency response to Covid via the Northern Ireland Central Crisis Management Agency (NICCMA) - Mr Pengelly said the department felt there was no value in triggering that agency in February 2020 as it would take people away from other work and it was dealing with an under-resourced system
Overworked personnel, with Mr Pengelly saying he had tams of people "working ridiculously long days with no respite at weekends" - he added any additional work "could have pushed them beyond breaking point"
That Northern Ireland relied on modelling work from Great Britain, as there was no capacity or provision here until the return of Northern Ireland's chief scientific adviser from leave at the end of March 2020
That it did not occur to him why there was no Covid special advisory group within the Department of Health
And that the department was aware visitors from Wuhan in China travelled to Northern Ireland and the Republic at the end of January 2020 - he said he had been advised the group was "asymptomatic"
Earlier, he told the inquiry that the structure of Northern Ireland's health and social care system meant the workforce was "tired" with numerous workforce vacancies as it entered the pandemic in 2020.
Long waiting lists, staffing shortages and a fragile workforce meant the system was already shouldering huge burden as it entered the pandemic.
"We entered the pandemic with a configuration of services that wasn't as good as it could have been," Mr Pengelly said.
He also said Northern Ireland's integrated health care system did not mean that services were better placed prior or during the pandemic and at times he "struggled to see the real impact of the tangible benefits of a joint integrated system".
On having the worst hospital waiting lists in the UK in 2018, Mr Pengelly agreed with counsel to the inquiry that Northern Ireland was the poorest "performing region in the UK".
However, he explained that different metrics were used when compiling local waiting lists with those in the rest of the UK.
He told the inquiry that the chief medical officer, Sir Michael McBride, did not have an independent role within the department but that his advice did have "an independent aspect to it".
