Crumbley parents: 'I really wish we ... would have taken him home'

For the first time since the Oxford High School shooting, the world on Monday heard James and Jennifer Crumbley express regret about leaving their son in school after seeing a violent drawing he had made that included a gun and the words "The thoughts won't stop. Help me."

"I really wish we ..." Jennifer Crumbley said in a police substation hours after the massacre.

"Would have taken him home," her husband added, as they completed the sentence together.

More than two years later, video of that conversation was played Monday in Jennifer Crumbley's historic trial, in which prosecutors are trying to convince jurors that the Crumbleys made numerous missteps that cost four children their lives. The parents are charged with involuntary manslaughter after their son Ethan Crumbley killed four and injured seven at the school on Nov. 30, 2021.

Among the alleged mistakes was not pulling their son from school after being summoned to the counselor's office over the teenager's troubling drawing. The Crumbleys promised to get him therapy within 48 hours and went back to their jobs.

Two hours later, their son fired his first shot, using a gun that his parents had bought him just days before as an early Christmas present. The gift, and many other acts, would lead to the Crumbleys being the first parents in America charged in a mass school shooting. Jennifer Crumbley is being tried first. James Crumbley's trial is scheduled for March. Their son has pleaded guilty and is sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.

Dad: Gun was hidden in armoire, bullets stashed under jeans

On Day Three of testimony, more details were disclosed about where the murder weapon was stored before the then-15-year-old shooter used it to terrorize his school.

In a videotaped interview that was played in court, James Crumbley told investigators that the 9mm handgun at issue was hidden in an armoire, in a gun case, and that the bullets were tucked underneath some jeans in a different spot.

"The gun was empty and the bullets were in a completely different place,” James Crumbley is heard telling the investigator, adding he and his son “go to the shooting range all the time. … I’ve been trying to teach him safety.”

“It was a hobby that they did together,” Jennifer Crumbley added.

Prosecutors have alleged that the Crumbleys were grossly negligent on a number of levels, including ignoring their son's mental health issues, buying him a gun instead of getting him therapy, and giving him access to that gun.

The Crumbleys, however, have maintained that target shooting was a family hobby, that they had no way of knowing their son would carry out a mass shooting and that the gun was secured — in this case, hidden in an armoire. The couple also had a safe with two other guns. The combination was 0-0-0.

'Why? Why?'

Prosecutors also showed jurors previously unreleased video of the Crumbleys talking with Oakland County sheriff's investigators after the shooting. James Crumbley asked for water, saying he was “freaking out,” and an emotional Jennifer Crumbley could be heard saying “Why? Why?" and "he’s never done anything bad.”

An investigator asked the parents what had happened that morning and as James Crumbley started telling them about meeting with the counselors about their son “doodling on a test or a practice test,” his wife interrupted and asked whether they should get an attorney.

“I think we probably should have a lawyer,” Jennifer Crumbley is heard saying in the video.

But James Crumbley jumped in: “I think we can speak to the cops.”

Jennifer Crumbley then described texting with her son that day, saying she sent him a text at 12:21 p.m. asking whether he was OK. He told her he had just gotten back from lunch. She said she texted her son that he could talk to his parents and that they wouldn’t judge him. He said he knew and “I love you.”

Ten minutes later, he fired his first shot.

At the police substation that night, the parents were taken into a room where their son was being held. As they left, James Crumbley could be heard saying to his son repeatedly: “I love you.”

School counselor testifies: Multiple teachers raised red flags

Oxford High School counselor Shawn Hopkins, who met with Ethan Crumbley and his parents on the morning of the shooting, was on the witness stand for several hours Monday, explaining his interactions with the shooter before the rampage and the numerous red flags about the boy in the months and days before.

According to his testimony:

The shooter first landed on his radar in May 2021, the school year before the shooting, when a teacher reported that the shooter was falling asleep in her class. It was deemed a minor issue, and his mom was not notified, Hopkins said.

Four months later came an email from a Spanish teacher.

"Hi Shawn. Could you please touch base with Ethan Crumbley?" the teacher wrote on Sept. 8, 2021. "In his autobiography poem, he said that he feels terrible and that his family is a mistake. Unusual responses for sure."

Hopkins replied that he would follow up, but said the teacher later gave him more context about the incident, so he did not do so. Ethan Crumbley's mom was never notified.

Two months later came another email from the Spanish teacher, again about the shooter.

"Hi Shawn. Ethan is having a rough time right now. He might need to speak with you," the teacher wrote on Nov. 10, 2021, just 20 days before the shooting.

Hopkins testified that he met with the boy and told him that he was there for him. He said he did not contact the student's parents because being sad was common for kids.

Nineteen days later came another warning, this one from an English teacher who said she spotted the shooter looking at bullets on his cellphone in class — one day before the shooting. At 9:34 a.m., the English teacher emailed three school officials, including Hopkins.

"Now that he's on my radar, I'm also noticing that some of his previous work that he's completed from earlier in the year leans a bit toward the violent side," the English teacher emailed.

The shooter was pulled from class.

According to Hopkins, Ethan Crumbley explained that he had gone to the shooting range with his mom over the weekend, that shooting is a shared hobby and that's why he was looking at bullets.

Hopkins said he was sent back to class.

Warnings continue, parents summoned

Hopkins said his next encounter with the shooter was on the morning of the shooting, when he got an 8 a.m. email from a teacher reporting: "Today he is watching videos" of a man "gunning down people."

"My first reaction was, here we go again," Hopkins testified.

Then came another email, this one at 9:32 a.m.

A math teacher found the troubling drawing on the shooter's worksheet of a gun, a bleeding human and the plea to "help me." The parents were summoned.

Hopkins said he had hoped the parents would take him home that day, stressing he did not want Ethan Crumbley to be alone. Hopkins testified that he “did not specifically ask them to take him home,” but did ask them to get him therapy. Hopkins said that while he told the parents that he wanted their son to be seen that day, it “was made quite clear that it wasn’t possible to do that day” because they had to return to work.

Absent a disciplinary reason to keep Ethan Crumbley from class, Hopkins said he allowed him to go back. Jennifer Crumbley asked whether they were done, and he recalled responding: “I guess so.”

Hopkins said he wrote Ethan Crumbley a pass so he could go back to class and “just let him know I cared about him.”

Hopkins testified that his follow-up plan was to meet with Ethan Crumbley the next morning to check on additional discussions at home about getting him help. If not, he testified, he planned to call Children’s Protective Services.

Under cross-examination from Shannon Smith, Jennifer Crumbley's lawyer, Hopkins said that he did not call the shooter's mom the first three times he heard concerns from teachers about her son. She was not contacted until the day before the shooting, when her son was discovered researching bullets in class. A social worker left her a voicemail about the incident, saying she had addressed it with her son and to have a nice holiday.

Hopkins said Jennifer Crumbley was not asked to return the call.

Smith also questioned Hopkins about the drawing that included the gun. Hopkins saw a photo of the original drawing and an altered version, in which the shooter had written happy comments about school to conceal the original dark content. Smith asked whether when Hopkins saw the gun drawn on the sheet it “was not enough to make you believe that Mrs. Crumbley’s son posed a risk to himself or other students, correct?”

“I wasn’t sure whether he posed a risk to himself and so that is why I called in the parents,” Hopkins testified. “I was concerned, and I wouldn’t call in parents unless I was concerned.”

Horse barn owner once said mom needed a police escort to visit

Jurors also heard more than an hour of testimony about the Crumbleys' horse hobby.

Kira Pennock, who owned the barn where the Crumbleys boarded their two horses, testified that Jennifer Crumbley spent $10,000 on two horses, and took horse riding lessons from her about three times a week during the evenings and during the day on the weekends.

Pennock said the Crumbleys spoke frequently about their horses' health issues, paid by check for her services, spent $5,000 on each horse and sometimes drank alcohol at her barn.

Smith objected to the testimony about drinking, arguing that it was irrelevant.

Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald disagreed. "If you're buying a $5,000 horse and drinking," it's relevant regarding their priorities as parents. The prosecution has long argued the Crumbleys paid more attention to their personal lives than they did their son.

The farm owner said that she met the Crumbleys' son only once, and that Jennifer Crumbley mentioned him once in awhile, "called him weird" and referred to him as an "oopsie baby."

"There was not really much talk of her son," Pennock said, and what there was "was nothing truly positive."

Pennock testified about the day of the shooting. That morning, she said, she learned the Crumbleys' horse Billy needed medication for mud fever and his legs were swollen. Jennifer Crumbley also had plans for a riding lesson that night, she told jurors, noting Crumbley contacted her after the morning meeting at her son's school, and told her that she still planned to be at her lesson and that her son was coming along.

According to Pennock, Crumbley explained that her son was having a "shit" day at school and showed her a photo of the violent drawing on the math worksheet.

Pennock suggested her son could use horse therapy.

"He needs something," Jennifer Crumbley responded in a Facebook Messenger chat.

"Let's make him a cowboy," Pennock wrote back.

Pennock testified that later that day, when she heard there was a shooting at Oxford High School, she immediately thought it was Crumbley's son.

Why? the prosecutor asked.

"It's not normal for someone to draw these things at school," Pennock testified.

At 4:07, she messaged Jennifer: "Is everything okay … If you need anything please let me know."

At 4:42: Jennifer Crumbley wrote her back: "I need to sell my horses, STAT."

Pennock said she offered to buy the horses. Jennifer Crumbley told her she paid $5,000 for each horse, but wanted $8,000 each for them. Pennock said she became concerned that the Crumbleys might come to her barn and steal items.

The defense objected. The prosecution was instructed to reword the question.

Pennock testified: “I did not truly feel bad for Jennifer. I was upset that this had happened to all of the kids and families."

The jury also saw a string of Facebook messages between Pennock and Crumbley, during which Crumbley talked about needing $200,000 for a lawyer and selling her house to get money.

"I'm bawling right now. … My son ruined so many lives today," Crumbley wrote.

"I'm still in shock, too. Take it one day at a time … I will take care of the boys," Pennock wrote back, referring to the Crumbleys' horses.

"Okay, thanks for not judging, unlike the whole world," Jennifer Crumbley wrote back.

"I know you and James and this doesn't even remotely make me think it's your fault. It sounds like Ethan was a troubled kid. It's unfortunate this happened," Pennock wrote back.

Another message from Jennifer Crumbley said, "I wish we had warnings. Something. He was a good kid that made bad decisions."

Pennock wrote back, "There probably were warnings, but nobody saw them. Hindsight is 2020." Later, she told Jennifer Crumbley not to come to her barn without a police escort. "I'm really sorry. I need to look after my business."

"Seriously? Those horses are the only good things in my life right now." Jennifer Crumbley wrote back.

Pennock also testified that at one point, she changed her mind about letting Jennifer Crumbley come to the barn alone, and messaged her that it was OK to visit the horses.

But Jennifer Crumbley wrote back: "We're out of the area in a safe place."

According to Pennock's testimony, she and Crumbley communicated about the sale of the horses and their well-being in the days after the shooting, with Jennifer Crumbley noting at one point that her messages "are probably being monitored."

On Dec. 3, when Pennock suggested they meet to discuss selling the horses for cash, Crumbley responded: "Maybe. They're announcing charges at 12."

According to Pennock, she did not buy the horses. Rather the animals were signed over to her per the boarding contract. The Crumbleys have been jailed for more than two years, since those charges were announced.

On cross-examination by Smith, Pennock conceded she was also friends with Jennifer Crumbley, not just a business associate.

She also testified that she had bad cell service at her barn as it was in a remote area, and that customers had difficulty making calls. This detail is important to the defense because the Crumbleys have been accused of ignoring their son's text messages about hallucinating when they were out riding horses.

Smith also tried to impeach the barn owner, questioning her about prior testimony when Pennock said in 2022: "I have never gotten the feeling that Jennifer and James had those types of issues with their son."

Smith asked Pennock why her current testimony is different — that she thought the Crumbleys had issues with their son. She couldn't explain the difference.

Smith then asked Pennock why she didn't call police after seeing the troubling drawing the shooter had made on the math sheet.

"I would not have known that something like this would have happened," Pennock responded.

That's precisely what Smith has been arguing about her client: that she could not predict what happened, not even after seeing that math paper, and that hindsight is 20/20.

"If you had a crystal ball," would you have called police? Smith asked Pennock.

"Correct," the barn owner answered.

Smith also asked Pennock whether she ever had any problems with Jennifer Crumbley stealing from her, or whether she ever contacted police about such problems or concerns.

No, she answered, but she feared the Crumbleys, given their circumstances, may do things they hadn't done.

Defense attorney apologizes for 'kill myself' comment

Monday's proceedings also included an apology from the defense attorney over a comment she had made last week while struggling with a witness. Smith said, in front of the jury: "I'm going to kill myself."

While the prosecution blasted her over the comment, the judge concluded it was a slip of the tongue.

“I am apologizing for that comment,” Smith said. “I truly did not mean to say the comment I made.”

Judge Cheryl Matthews said: “I believe that.”

On Friday, after testimony concluded and jurors left the courtroom, prosecutors expressed concern about Smith’s comment. Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald said parents of teens killed in the shooting were in the courtroom and she was “simply asking that we be respectful to victims.” Smith said she did not mean to offend the families.

Matthews said on Friday she thought “it was a slip of the tongue. … Emotions are running high.”

Contact Tresa Baldas: tbaldas@freepress.com

Contact Gina Kaufman: gkaufman@freepress.com. Follow her on X: @ReporterGina.

This article originally appeared on Detroit Free Press: Oxford school shooter's parents hid gun in armoire, bullets under jeans