Desires for Foothills mall, at their heart, are still similar to wants from the past

Back in the mid-'80s, malls were the place where moms went to shop for back-to-school clothes at Mervyn's, teens went to spend money for cassette tapes at Disc Jockey and kids counted out their change for Orange Julius.

But it wasn't just a place to spend money. It was a place to spend time, with an arcade, a children's play area and plenty of space to loiter. For mall walkers, it was a place to get out and move.

People's wants, needs and ideas for the mall of today still include these consumer aspects and social aspects, we learned when we recently asked this question in Coloradoan Conversations: With Foothills entering another chapter in its evolution, what are your hopes for the space and how it might help shape the future of Midtown Fort Collins?

When we asked this question, we had only a small glimpse of what McWhinney and Prism are planning. Since then, a public meeting offered a look at renderings and some more details.

Keep reading to see what people want for the Midtown site:

Fort Collins already has a good example of what Foothills could be, with one additional thing going for it already: Nancy B. said: "The Exchange on North College is a good model for what the Foothills mall could look like, plus Foothills offers more parking area."

Alan I. shared an out-of-state example that Foothills could emulate: "My wife and I visited Zona Rosa shopping mall in Kansas City a few years back. It's designed with an old-town type atmosphere and although it had some streets, they were low-speed and one-way. Because the streets were one-way, it was very walkable but yet you could still park in front of the shops if you wanted to, or park in an adjacent parking garage. It also had a central courtyard for live entertainment. It had a great feel to it, similar to our Old town, but much quieter, more walkable and a much better selection of shopping."

Another idea from Karen A. is one that she acknowledges seems unlikely to happen now that development plans have been made. Still, it expresses a desire that might still be unmet: "Enlarge and upgrade the city's (Foothills) Activity Center. Fort Collins needs more indoor sports facilities for basketball and soccer for youth teams."

Whatever it is, it isn't up to the public, Douglas O. said. "It’s private property. ... The people that own the mall should do whatever they want with it."

Here's what people want for shopping

"Where do you shop anymore?" Marc S. asked. "Some people actually like to go into stores. Fort Collins messed up when they were not more aggressive and let Centerra take shopping and taxes away from Fort Collins. We used to be the destination for Wyoming and all of Northern Colorado."

"How about bringing in some better stores, like Pottery Barn, L.L. Bean or Restoration Hardware? It would save us the drive to Denver!" Nancy O. said.

"Stores like West Elm, Anthropologie, Patagonia and Nordstrom may keep more shoppers in town. Kids like to hang out in the mall, so stores for teens like Urban outfitters, Aerie, and like the now-defunct White Balcony in Old Town, a bubble tea place, and some more sports attire stores," Wendy M. said.

Other suggestions: Crate & Barrel, The Container Store, IKEA, Apple Store and Dillard's.

For subscribers: Have you ever wondered why Fort Collins doesn't have an Apple store? Here's why.

But Douglas O. said these options are unlikely: "Too small of a market and a failed experiment of a mall. They wouldn’t even consider looking. Not gonna happen."

Michelle L. wants more practical, affordable options: "How about getting some clothing stores to replace (what I always felt was) the middle range price point? We've lost Sears, J.C. Penney, and now Macy's. Can't get everything at Kohl's. I'm glad the city wants to build more lower income housing, but then they push for high-end stores and shopping 'experiences.' "

A.W. added to that sentiment: "Make the mall a community gathering spot, not a place for 'high-end' stores. High-end stores only serve a specific market. Follow a trend that supports many markets, rather, demographics within that market. I like to think of many independent stores housed under one roof. Notice how popular the farmer's market is? Something like that. I envision a Mile High Flea Market sort of concept."

Growing Fort Collins has fallen behind on shopping options, and it's surprising that there isn't more demand, Peter O. said: "Except for groceries, hardware and basic housewares, shopping is much worse than when I moved here when we had one-third the population we have now. Categories like clothing are now absent from our local market unless all you want are jeans and T-shirts. Sure, things like electronics can easily be evaluated from specifications and photos on a website to purchase online but other things, especially clothing, are better evaluated by seeing, touching and trying on in a store. With the wide ranges of manufacturing quality and interpretation of sizes, online clothes buying is a slow, expensive, iterative affair, so I'm surprised that my fellow residents have so resolutely rejected our local stores."

Pro: Being outdoors. Con: Being outdoors

"Indoor mall wins. Outdoor mall loses. The end," said commenter R.F.

Michael H. explained why: "This is Colorado. We have cold and sometimes snowy winters that can last 4 to 5 months. We need a space for some indoor gathering. Please leave some of the indoor space intact! Centerra is pretty 'dead' in January and February."

But "nobody went inside (Foothills) mall when it was all indoors," John M. contends, hinting that whatever goes there has to be viable.

Younger folks are probably accustomed to the outdoor concept, and with that being the current state of things, Jessica E. said: "I hope that it will no longer be a concrete jungle. The area is severely lacking plant life and what little is there looks sad. I'll never attend any of the 5Ks, events or even just walk around because the area is quite frankly hot and depressing. We love a good patio sit in Colorado; it just needs to be natural enough to feel inviting. For example, Odell."

It was mentioned a few times, particularly with the multifamily housing already nearby and more expected: "Open space, as a wonderful space for the many apartment (etc.) dwellers to have a peaceful place to roam and play," Ardyce C. said.

"I agree … reduce retail, adding more green space that allows for gathering and outdoor entertainment," Michael L. said. "Add some residential (see Highlands Ranch townhomes near their library) as well as civic space(s) such as a library and/or educational extension. Restaurants, some indoor, most with outdoor patios/decks that link to green space. Connect to this community with bike/walking trails. This will keep people coming to a multi-use, 24-hour community."

Not just a mall, but a neighborhood and a hub

Ideas like Michael L.'s were flowing in this conversation, like this one from James P.: "The existing structures and business areas might be better repurposed into retirement and condo style housing with a supermarket, various types of restaurants, possibly a small brewery, some small office spaces, some city of Fort Collins services, and some doctor and dental offices to accommodate the people living in the surrounding apartment complexes and nearby neighborhoods. By offering these types of venues, locals wouldn't need to drive all over town to seek services. Make this into a community services/entertainment area for south Fort Collins."

"Make it into an integral part of Midtown rather than a shopping destination for out-of-towners," Larey K. said.

And it's a great use of space for housing, many said:

"Leave the mall building up and create a second tier for micro-apartments. There could still be retail on the ground floor, but Fort Collins needs housing, especially small-format housing, so all that wasted space in the second story could be put to use," Debra W. said.

"Wouldn't this be a good place to put high-density housing, since it is along the MAX line and the Mason Trail bike path? That would be far better than dispersing density throughout town and creating a car-dependent nightmare," Anne C. said.

But how much housing is appropriate depends on your point of view. "The current mall is surrounded by housing," Michael H. said.

The use of tax money, waste gets pushback

"I'm just about fine with whatever they want to do, but please don't give them any taxpayer dollars," Eric V. said.

He's referring to the tax increment financing, or TIF, that the mall owners received from the creation of an urban renewal area, or URA. Don't tune out; here’s how it works:

This TIF process changes where existing property tax dollars are funneled, but not until property values increase due to the improvements. At that time, a portion of the tax collections goes back to the developer for a temporary period of time instead of going to counties and districts, like fire and school districts. It's meant to encourage development.

"If I recall correctly, we contributed something like $68 million of TIF money to the mall. What did we get back in return? Was it even $10 million?" Douglas O. asked.

The original 2014 financing agreement between then-mall owner Alberta and the city funded about $72 million in metro district debt and created about $53 million in public benefits including the Foothills Activity Center and an underpass linking the east and west sides of College Avenue.

Kimm K. echoed the above views and noted "the city should live up to its environmental health policy and take into consideration the environmental cost of any changes. Think about the tremendous waste of resources and pollution created by tearing down structurally sound buildings — and replacing them with new structures nobody wanted — and now they're going to tear down and re-build again."

And all this change leaves plenty of room for nostalgia. Join the comments of this story to share your favorite mall hangouts from back in your day.

This recap includes information from past reporting by Coloradoan business and growth reporter Pat Ferrier.

This article originally appeared on Fort Collins Coloradoan: Fort Collins' Foothills mall renovation desires not all that new