E. Jean Carroll wraps three days of testimony in civil rape case against Trump, defends staying silent

NEW YORK — E. Jean Carroll concluded three days of testimony Monday in her civil rape case against former President Donald Trump, defending her reasons for staying silent and telling a Manhattan jury that her road to the witness stand was long and painful.

During his second day of cross-examining Carroll, Trump’s lawyer Joe Tacopina asked the longtime advice columnist about media interviews, her friendships, her journalism career, her income, “Law & Order,” and her decision to stay silent for decades about the alleged assault.

“Mr. Tacopina, I was born in 1943. I am a part of the Silent Generation. Women like me were told to keep our heads up, not call the police,” Carroll told Tacopina during one line of questioning.

“The fact that I never went to the police is not surprising for someone of my age,” Carroll continued. “We were not ever trained to call the police. I would have rather done anything rather than call the police.”

During his cross-exam, Tacopina played an eight-minute clip of Carroll’s interview on CNN in June 2019. Explaining to Anderson Cooper that she preferred to describe what happened between her and Trump in the Bergdorf Goodman dressing room as a “fight,” Carroll said she avoided the term “rape,” which she felt some people find “sexy,” prompting the anchor to cut to an ad break quickly.

“The word ‘rape’ carries so many sexual connotations. This was not — this was not sexual. It just hurt,” Carroll told Cooper. “I think most people think of rape as sexy.”

Trump has chided Carroll for her comments in the widely-watched interview. In his deposition last year, he called her “mentally sick” and misquoted her as telling Cooper, “it was very sexy to be raped.”

Carroll, who for years wrote advice columns about love and sex in Elle magazine, told Tacopina she had been making a point about rape culture and how Hollywood glamorizes sexual assault. As an example, she referenced the hit HBO series “Game of Thrones,” which she noted included at least nine graphic rape scenes.

“Rape is everywhere in our entertainment world, and it is — it is used because it excites people and draws an audience, hence, I said I think most people think of rape as being sexy,” Carroll testified Monday, clarifying that she didn’t feel that way herself.

“(R)ape is the most horrible, violent, act that can be done against a woman or a man,” she said.

Carroll said identifying as a rape victim brought her unwanted intrusive thoughts depicting disturbing visions of the alleged incident.

“I just say it’s a ‘fight.’ That way, I’m not the victim,” Carroll told the jury. “I liked the word ‘fight’ because it gave me action … It wasn’t something done to me. I got away, so I use the word ‘fight.’”

In another back and forth, Tacopina grilled Carroll about a 2012 episode of “Law & Order SVU,” in which a character described a role-playing rape scene inside Bergdorf Goodman. Conservative commentators and the conspiracy theorist Alex Jones’ website InfoWars have suggested Carroll stole the plot line to fabricate the assault.

Carroll told Tacopina she watched “Law & Order” but not the “SVU” spinoff.

“I’m surprised this sort of plot is not seen more often,” Carroll testified.

The defense lawyer also asked Carroll about why she sued Trump but not Les Moonves, the former CBS CEO she’s accused of sexual assault.

“(Moonves) didn’t call me names,” Carroll testified, adding, “He didn’t grind my face into the mud like Donald Trump did.”

Tacopina ended his cross-examination by playing a clip of Carroll on a podcast, in which she described feeling “fabulous” and buoyed up by her supporters.

On brief redirect, Carroll’s lawyer Mike Ferrara picked up where Trump’s lawyer left off, asking her about her feelings in the immediate aftermath and her decision to speak out in 2019.

“Instead of living with the feeling of shame, which I’ve always covered up, and living with the feeling that I caused this horrible thing to happen, by telling my story, I started to take a little bit of control,” Carroll said, her voice cracking.

“And it’s been a long way, and this is a very satisfying moment for me to be here to answer your questions.”

Earlier Monday, Judge Kaplan denied Trump’s request to toss the case, rejecting the ex-president’s complaints that he hadn’t been given a fair shake.

Among other arguments, Trump complained that Kaplan would allow Natasha Stoynoff to testify without his lawyers questioning her first outside of the jury’s presence. Stoynoff has accused Trump of forcing his tongue down her throat when she interviewed him at Mar-a-Lago for People Magazine in 2005.

Along with two friends of Carroll’s who will corroborate her testimony, the jury is expected to hear from Stoynoff and Jessica Leeds, who has accused Trump of molesting her on a flight in the late 1980s.

Trump still hasn’t told the court whether he intends to testify, though he is not expected to. If they don’t see him in the flesh, jurors will see the presidential candidate discussing sexual assault in the infamous “Access Hollywood” tape, which Kaplan has allowed Carroll’s lawyers to play in court.