Every single case I brought was prosecuted, former Post Office investigator says
Every case a former Post Office investigator looked into resulted in prosecution, the Horizon Inquiry has heard.
When asked if there was “any analysis of the evidential strengths and weaknesses” of cases provided by the fraud team, Raymond Grant responded: “I don’t know.”
“Did the fraud team always come back with the decision to prosecute or were there decisions indicating the Post Office was dissatisfied with the evidential sufficiency in the case?” asked inquiry counsel Jason Beer KC.
“I can’t recall getting a rejection on the decision to prosecute.” responded Mr Grant.
“So every case went to prosecution,” Mr Beer asked. “Yes,” Mr Grant confirmed.
It came after Mr Grant said he believed the late William Quarm, who was wrongly convicted of stealing from his Post Office, is still guilty despite being exonerated.
When the former investigator was asked if he thought Mr Quarm continued to be guilty of embezzlement, he said: “In this witness statement today? Yes”.
The counsel then pressed him on the issue and asked if he thought Mr Quarm remains guilty of the crime, despite the verdict being overturned, Mr Grant said: “Yes, I do. I still think Mr Quarm had a role to play in the loss of the money.”
William Quarm was convicted in 2010 of stealing from a Post Office he ran in North Uist, the Outer Hebrides.
He was ordered to carry out 150 hours of unpaid work and died two years later aged 69.
His widow, Anne Quarm, last year had his conviction overturned at the Court of Criminal Appeal in Edinburgh.
Earlier the UK postal minister Kevin Hollinrake said Fujitsu should be contributing hundreds of millions of pounds in compensation to Post Office victims.
He told the BBC: “This will cost the taxpayer a billion pounds, maybe more than that”, and said he thought the company should contribute towards a significant proportion of the cost.
03:31 PM GMT
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03:29 PM GMT
Recap
Here is a recap of the key moments from the Horizon IT Inquiry today:
The former investigator said he believes that William Quarm, who was wrongly convicted of stealing from a Post Office, is still guilty
Inquiry lawyers had to use legal powers to force Raymond Grant to appear at the hearing
Mr Grant blamed dog walking and Christmas dinners at the residential care home where he worked for taking up the time he needed to write his witness statement, which was just two pages long
Mr Grant accused Post Office of ‘deceiving’ him and said he was “humbly sorry” for his part in what happened
He confirmed that every case he dealt with personally went to prosecution
02:48 PM GMT
Investigator statement in full
02:46 PM GMT
Pictured: Raymond Grant after giving evidence at inquiry
02:40 PM GMT
Watch: Grant believes Quarm is guilty despite quashed conviction
A former Post Office investigator still believes a subpostmaster stole money from his branch despite a court overturning his wrongful conviction, the Horizon IT inquiry heard.
Raymond Grant told the probe he considered William Quarm to still be guilty of stealing money from his Post Office branch in North Uist, Scotland, but denied that was the reason for not regarding the inquiry as a priority.
Mr Quarm was convicted of embezzlement in 2010 and ordered to carry out 150 hours of unpaid work.
He died two years later at the age of 69 and his conviction was successfully quashed in the Court of Criminal Appeal in Edinburgh last year.
02:29 PM GMT
Grant accuses Post Office of 'deceiving' him and others
As Chair Sir Wyn Williams was adjourning today’s hearing, Mr Grant interjected to ask if he could give a personal statement in which he accused the Post Office of “deceiving” him and a “lot more people”.
He said the organisation “let postmasters down” and “let staff down”.
His voice broke and he appeared close to tears as he concluded by saying he was “humbly sorry” for his part in what happened.
After asking if it was possible for him to make a personal statement and having the request granted by Sir Wyn, Mr Grant said: “The outcome of this inquiry is a very, very sorry state of affairs - I don’t mean that as a reflection on you, Sir Wyn.
“The Post Office let postmasters down, they let the staff who they employed down, by being less than open and honest with information that should have been shared.
“[It] wasn’t shared and the ultimate results have led to significant upset [and] significant difficulties for people who were left behind.
“I can say this because…I’ve got no link with the Post Office anymore…they’ve deceived me and they’ve deceived an awful lot more people.”
As his voice appeared to break, he said: “For My part in it, I’m humbly sorry.
“I just hope that people do learn from this and are more honest in the future for other people’s lives.
“Thank-you.”
Sir Wyn thanked Mr Grant for the statement and adjourned the inquiry until tomorrow.
02:16 PM GMT
Investigator believes postmaster still guilty
Raymond Grant has said he believes that William Quarm, who was wrongly convicted of stealing from a Post Office, is still guilty.
When the former investigator was asked if he thought Mr Quarm continued to be guilty of embezzlement, he said: “In this witness statement today? Yes”.
The counsel then pressed him on the issue and asked if he thought Mr Quarm remains guilty of the crime, despite the verdict being overturned, Mr Grant said: “Yes, I do. I still think Mr Quarm had a role to play in the loss of the money.”
William Quarm was convicted in 2010 of stealing from a Post Office he ran in North Uist, the Outer Hebrides.
He was ordered to carry out 150 hours of unpaid work and died two years later aged 69.
His widow, Anne Quarm, last year had his conviction successfully overturned when the Court of Criminal Appeal in Edinburgh confirmed he was wrongly prosecuted.
01:09 PM GMT
Quarm appeared dazed and confused during interview
The inquiry is now being shown an internal document published in 2008 following his interview with Mr Quarm.
The paperwork shows the shortfall at his North Uist branch which he was blamed for amounted to £40,277.
In his notes Mr Grant writes that Mr Quarm explains that he needed to pay for stock for his grocery business from his main supplier” who by this time was insisting on a weekly payment of around £4,200.
Mr Grant writes: “During the course of this discussion Mr Quarm appeared to be in a bit of a daze and was not understanding the questions put to him.
“He was asked if he was OK, he replied that because of the interview he had not taken his daily medication.
“Raymond Grant allowed him to do this and confirmed that he was in a fit state to continue.”
The document later on confirms that Mr Grant decided it would “not be appropriate” to conduct searches of Mr Quarm’s home address due to his health condition and the inability to contact anyone in authority at the time.
Mr Quarm then “gave assurances” he would forward copies of all his bank, mortgage and credit card accounts within one week of the interview, which the inquiry heard he did.
The document goes on to state: “Mr Quarm admitted that since at least January 2008 he has taken advantage of his position as sub-postmaster to use Post Office money for his own personal use and continued doing so until audit on July 23 2008.”
12:16 PM GMT
Quarm said he was 'not confident' using Horizon
Mr Quarm in his confession related to missing money, suggested the Post Office had given him insufficient training.
He said he wasn’t confident when using the technology, adding that on a scale of one to 10, he felt his Horizon knowledge was a “low figure”.
But Mr Grant said: “I’m not sure he says the word ‘insufficient’. When he got his training it was four days.”
11:58 AM GMT
'Consensus Horizon worked normally'
Mr Grant was asked if, when he left the Post Office in 2009, he was aware of any “allegations concerning the improper functioning of Horizon”, which caused balancing errors.
He said: “I’m fairly certain in my recollection, no one had brought to my attention that there were problems with the Horizon system.”
The former investigator added: “The consensus was that Horizon was working normally.”
11:46 AM GMT
Recap
As the inquiry resumes, it is safe to say that the past hour and a half have contained some truly extraordinary moments.
Among other things, Mr Grant blamed dog walking and Christmas dinners at the residential care home where he worked for taking up the time he needed to write his witness statement.
He has also freely admitted to only referencing one of the 78 documents - William Quarm’s witness statement - that he was given as part of the inquiry,
This is a man who also can only remember when he took up his first job as a postman in 1982 - prompting Mr Beer to ask if there was “any point” in him asking when he joined the Post Office investigations team.
Unsurprisingly, Mr Grant said that there wasn’t.
While some moments have been almost laughable, one can only imagine how Mr Quarm’s widow must have felt when Mr Grant said “in his mind” he was guilty.
After enduring years of stress and torment to get her late husband’s name cleared, it is hard to think of a worse insult to his memory.
11:44 AM GMT
Horizon could have created cash shortage errors
The counsel asked Mr Grant whether there were “suggestions that the Horizon system had created errors that could have caused cash shortages”, and the former investigator said: “Yes.”
Asked if others had raised issues with Horizon in the run up to the investigation involving Mr Quarm, Mr Grant responded: “I do not recall”.
11:37 AM GMT
Helpdesk raising Horizon issues 'not helpful'
When asked why the Post Office security team would be concerned about the helpdesk telling people the Horizon system was faulty and inaccurate, Mr Grant said: “I think it’s because it brings the integrity of the machine into question.”
Mr Beer questioned why that was a problem and the former investigator said: “Telling post-masters there are glitches in the system without a name or reason is not helpful.”
The counsel challenged Mr Grant on this by saying it appeared “the problem wasn’t that there might be glitches in the system but that someone was saying there are glitches in the system.”
11:16 AM GMT
Grant served Section 21 Notice compelling him to give evidence
Mr Grant was ultimately visited by sheriff officers, who issued him with a Section 21 Notice - a legal power statutory inquiries can use to compel someone to give evidence.
Initially answering Mr Jason’s question about his witness statement, Mr Grant said: “I received the bundle of papers on December 5 last year.”
11:14 AM GMT
Lawyers had to use legal powers to force investigator to appear
Inquiry lawyers had to use legal powers to force a former Post Office investigator to appear at a hearing today.
In an extraordinary start to his appearance in front of the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry, Raymond Grant was asked by counsel Jason Beer KC why his witness statement was “so short”.
His question came after Mr Grant confirmed the legitimacy of his signature on the third page - suggesting the document was just three pages in length.
The question prompted a rambling answer from Mr Grant, who explained this was down to a “clash of priorities” including the fact he was dealing with Christmas dinners and carol services at the homeless centre he worked at.
He told the inquiry that he decided his job was more important than dealing with his witness statement at the time.
Mr Grant also said he was ultimately visited by sheriff officers, who issued him with a Section 21 Notice - a legal power statutory inquiries can use to compel someone to give evidence.
Initially answering Mr Jason’s question about his witness statement, Mr Grant said: “I received the bundle of papers on December 5 last year.”
Mr Grant then explained he was a programme manager for Christmas homeless centre and that his job was to give the 30 residents the “level of respect and dignity they deserve.”
Mr Grant told the inquiry that he decided his job was more important than dealing with his witness statement at the time.
11:08 AM GMT
Investigator insists he understood role
The inquiry counsel asked if Mr Grant understood his duties to disclose information as an investigator.
The former investigator said: “You had to disclose material which could show bias towards the offender.”
Mr Grant was then corrected by the counsel and told to refer to those being investigated as “suspects” not “offenders”.
10:56 AM GMT
Investigator had no qualifications
When asked if Mr Grant had any formal qualifications, experience or training related to investigating crimes when he joined the Post Office, he replied: “No, I had no formal or legal qualifications.”
He said he was subsequently given two to three days of investigations training on the Horizon system.
The counsel then asked if he had undergone any data analysis training for the Horizon system.
Mr Grant said: “I believe we did. We’re talking about analysis of the system which is like a computer, it’s factually based.
“If you put in figures and the figures at the end don’t balance, then you carry out an investigation.”
10:43 AM GMT
Former Post Office investigator: ‘I was just doing my job’
An investigator whose inquiry resulted in an innocent Post Office victim dying a convicted man insisted “I was just doing my job” when questioned at the Horizon IT inquiry.
Robert Daily admitted on Tuesday that he was not “comfortable” when he carried out searches on Peter Holmes’ family home and car but failed to apologise to his widow Marion, who sat just a few feet away.
Read the full story here.
10:41 AM GMT
Fujitsu should pay hundreds of millions over Post Office scandal
The UK postal minister has said Fujitsu should be contributing hundreds of millions of pounds in compensation to Post Office victims.
Kevin Hollinrake was asked if he thought Fujitsu could face a bill of “hundreds of millions of pounds” in the wake of the scandal and said: “Yes, I do.”
He told BBC: “This will cost the taxpayer a billion pounds, maybe more than that”, and said he thought the company should contribute towards a significant proportion of the cost.
10:35 AM GMT
The real Horizon victims portrayed in Mr Bates vs The Post Office
The story of the miscarriage of justice committed against innocent sub-postmasters and postmistresses has left the nation glued to its television screens and reignited intense debate surrounding the Post Office scandal.
More than nine million viewers have tuned in to Mr Bates vs the Post Office, making it ITV’s most successful new drama in three years, showing how hundreds were wrongly prosecuted because of faulty Horizon software.
Driven to financial and reputational ruin, the plight of hundreds of men and women running the country’s Post Office branches is now regarded as the greatest miscarriage of justice in British history.
Read the full stories of each of victim played in the drama here.
10:33 AM GMT
What happened yesterday?
If you’re just joining us now, here’s a recap of what happened yesterday at the inquiry:
A postmaster’s concerns about errors in Horizon were dismissed as “unfounded”
Investigator used falsely used information from wife’s CV to land job
Subpostmaster cases wrongly passed on to prosecutors in Scotland
Post Office raised cash recovery targets from 40 per cent to 65 per cent
Read the full day’s proceedings as they happened on our liveblog.
10:19 AM GMT
Welcome to The Telegraph's live coverage
Welcome to The Telegraph’s live coverage of the Post Office Scandal.
Raymond Grant, a former investigator, is being questioned.
Follow for the latest updates.
