The Excerpt podcast: Appeals court upholds Trump gag order in election interference case

On Saturday's episode of The Excerpt podcast: An appeals court upheld but narrowed a Donald Trump gag order in his federal election interference case. USA TODAY White House Correspondent Joey Garrison looks at Democrats' concerns over President Joe Biden's key voters for 2024. Pressure is rising on several universities after a heated congressional hearing this week on combating antisemitism. A federal judge has prohibited separating families at the border for the foreseeable future. USA TODAY Health Reporter Karen Weintraub explains what FDA approval for sickle cell gene therapies means for patients. A teenager becomes California's youngest lawyer.

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Hit play on the player above to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript below. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

Taylor Wilson:

Good morning. I'm Taylor Wilson, and today is Saturday, December 9th, 2023. This is The Excerpt. Today, what an appeals court said about a Donald Trump gag order in his election interference case. Plus, Democrats are worried that President Joe Biden is not energizing key voters ahead of 2024 and the FDA approves new gene therapies for sickle cell.

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Donald Trump will be prohibited from making public comments about witness participation in his federal election interference case. That's after an appeals court largely upheld a gag order against him yesterday. The gag order from US District Judge, Tanya Chutkan, applied to Trump, his lawyers and prosecutors in the criminal case. Trump argued, the order violated his first amendment free speech rights. The original gag order restrained them from making public statements that targeted parties, lawyers, court and legal staff, and any reasonably foreseeable witness or the substance of their testimony. The DC Appeals Court gave Trump more leeway by allowing him and his lawyers to publicly target special counsel, Jack Smith. But it said that Trump, his lawyers and the prosecution won't be allowed to make statements about witness participation in the case.

The appeals court also said they largely cannot make public statements about lawyers in the case, members of the court and lawyer staff, and about lawyer and staff family members. But the appeals court's decision also created more leeway there, ruling that those statements are only banned if they're intended to materially interfere with lawyer and staff work in the case, or likely to cause that interference. The case is set for trial in March.

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Democrats are worried that President Joe Biden has not energized key voters ahead of 2024, but some are still banking on Donald Trump being the ultimate motivator. I spoke with USA today White House correspondent, Joey Garrison for more. Hey there, Joey.

Joey Garrison:

Hey, thanks for having me on.

Taylor Wilson:

Thanks for hopping back on. So Joey, which voters are we talking about here and what are their concerns?

Joey Garrison:

Yeah, across multiple polls, what you see is, enthusiasm and in some cases, support lagging among black voters and Latino voters, voters of color, and these, of course, are really the most reliable voters for a long time for Democrats and kind of the most important part of the base. You're seeing, whereas Biden got over 90% of black voters in the 2020 election, right now they're polling, depending on which poll you look at, high 50s to 70% or so, and ultimately, maybe they'll get close to vote at the percentage closer to what he got in 2020. But even the smallest of fractions can make a huge difference. And then, the way people responded to these polls, makes you wonder about whether he'll get the turnout that he needs from some of these groups.

Another demographic, young voters under 30 years old, we're seeing signs where he's losing support and signs that they might not vote in the same numbers as four years ago. So all those are major warning signs to President Biden about 11 months away from the next election.

Taylor Wilson:

And Joey, I'm curious how the issues play in here. How might the economy help or hurt Biden, especially with some of these groups we're talking about, and what's his economic message at this point?

Joey Garrison:

Well, I mean, there just remains this disconnect, whereas last Friday, we had the latest news where unemployment has now dropped to 3.7%. Another new good jobs report and inflation is down significantly from where it was, from a year ago. But that's really not the narrative right now, about the economy. And the fact is, grocery prices, food prices are still on the fronts of minds of people. And it's almost like that's overriding any kind of progress and positive economic metrics that the White House continues to tout. And so, when you talk to voters, they don't notice a lot of the big accomplishments that President has made in terms of the infrastructure investments, climate investments, this new wave of manufacturing.

All of that is sort of getting lost because of kind of basic pocketbook, inflationary concerns. Now, I mean, every sign out there shows that the economy is getting better. It should continue to improve, but oftentimes, there's a substantial lag before that really gets deeply felt among the electorate. So that remains a problem for the president. And when you look at polling, Donald Trump right now, who's of course the front-runner to be the Republican nominee, scores higher marks in terms of who you trust more to handle the economy, Biden or Trump.

Taylor Wilson:

Yeah, I want to get to Trump in a second here, Joey, but also the Israel Hamas War is really drawing a line in the sand for many voters. What role might this conflict play in Biden courting key voters?

Joey Garrison:

Among young voters, particularly young progressive voters, that could be a problem that's giving some of them more pause to support President Biden. A lot of these people are first time voters. You're talking about people in college, and that's another issue that's become really a wedge between the entire Democratic party and Biden needs young voters to come out and support him in large numbers. Again, that can be a crucial swing one way or the another in the handful of states that are going to decide the election.

Taylor Wilson:

You mentioned former president and GOP front-runner Donald Trump, Democrats, at least in some camps, really banking on him being the ultimate motivator to help their cause. What do experts say about that strategy, Joey?

Joey Garrison:

Well, I mean, for some time now, several weeks, couple months, there's been Democratic anxiety about Joe Biden. Look, he's 81 years old. A lot of the accomplishments aren't resonating with key voters. But when you talk to Democrats on the ground, I think the feeling's still as well, once we get into a one-on-one matchup with Trump, we think those contrast between a Biden agenda and the "extreme MAG agenda" really going to spell things out there for voters, and that ultimately, Trump will energize voters to get to the polls maybe where Biden and his record does not.

But that is a risk. Trump's controversies aren't just new, even though they might be bigger right now with him facing various indictments. We're going to have trials next year while the election is going on. But a lot of voters on the Republican camp, of course, have looked past all these things and supported him anyway. So it should not be taken for granted. It should not just be assumed that people are going to turn off a potentially convicted presidential candidate.

Taylor Wilson:

All right. Joey Garrison covers the White House for USA today. Thank you, Joey.

Joey Garrison:

Hey, thanks for having me on, Taylor.

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Taylor Wilson:

Pressure is rising on two Ivy League universities and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology after a heated congressional hearing this week on combating antisemitism on college campuses amid the Israel Hamas War. A group of 13 house Democrats sent a letter yesterday to the leaders of MIT Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania, seeking policy changes to combat antisemitism on campus. The letter comes after Republican Congresswoman, Elise Stefanik, held a viral exchange with the three university presidents about campus policies to address antisemitism. She asked them whether calling for the genocide of Jews would violate their codes of conduct. Claudine Gay of Harvard said, antisemitic speech would violate university policies when it crosses into conduct. And Liz McGill of Penn had a similar response about conduct. Sally Kornbluth of MIT said, it would be investigated as harassment if pervasive and severe.

The comments drew blow back from some, including the White House. The president also spoke about anti-Muslim attacks and condemned hatred against both groups. In recent weeks, the federal government has opened investigations into several universities, including Penn and Harvard, regarding Islamophobia and antisemitism on campus.

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A federal judge yesterday, prohibited the separation of families at the border for purposes of deterring immigration for eight years. The move blocked the resumption of a Trump era policy. US sister Judge, Dana Sabraw, said that the separation of thousands of families, "represents one of the most shameful chapters in the history of our country." He approved a settlement between the Justice Department and families represented by the American Civil Liberties Union. Sabraw initially ordered an end to separations in 2018, less than a week after then President, Donald Trump did so himself, amid backlash.

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The FDA yesterday approved a pair of gene therapy treatments for sickle cell disease. I spoke with USA today health reporter, Karen Weintraub, to learn more about the illness and what this FDA approval means for those suffering from it. Karen, thanks, as always, for making the time.

Karen Weintraub:

Thank you for having me.

Taylor Wilson:

So let's just start here as a refresher for our listeners. What is sickle cell disease?

Karen Weintraub:

Sickle cell disease is a disease of the blood where the red blood cells get misshapen and they form what's called a sickle. It's like a rounded, pointy, somebody described it as nails in a baggie. So as the blood goes through the vessels, the nails kind of stick out, poke out and clump together, and they poke the edges of the blood vessels and clog the vessels. So it causes real pain. If you've ever had muscle cramps, nobody can really explain the pain. It's described as some of the worst pain ever, worse than childbirth, worse than anything else. It's really excruciating. Somebody I spoke with said, it's like lightning bolts that shoot from one side of your body to the other. She couldn't stand, she couldn't walk, she couldn't move her arms, it was so painful.

Taylor Wilson:

Well, the FDA has approved two gene therapies to treat this difficult disease. How do these work, Karen?

Karen Weintraub:

They've basically found a workaround so that more healthy blood cells are created. So there are fewer sickling cells and more healthy blood cells in their systems.

Taylor Wilson:

Will this actually cure patients of sickle cell?

Karen Weintraub:

So doctors are nervous about using the C word because they don't have a lot of really long-term data. The longest patients were treated about six years ago. So they don't want to say that this is going to work for decades and decades. They think so, they hope so, but they haven't used the cure word yet. But patients who have bone marrow transplants, which effectively, does the same thing, it substitutes sickled cells for healthy ones are cured, never have these problems again. So they think that that's what's going to be the case, but they'd hesitate to use that word.

Taylor Wilson:

So Karen, what does this FDA approval functionally mean for Americans living with this disease?

Karen Weintraub:

So it means that they have access to a treatment. So bone marrow transplants, as I said, can be curative, but only about 15% of people with sickle cell have access. You need to have somebody with similar blood to yours. So typically, a sibling. Bone marrow transplants are expensive and complicated. They take months of time and you're vulnerable for a year later to infection. It's quite a complex process. They're dangerous, they're life threatening, they may not work. So more people will have access. It's still a challenging process to get gene therapy. You still need to have, at the moment, chemotherapy, which renders people infertile. It's still a month long process in the hospital. It's not a simple thing. It's expensive. One of these is 2 million, another is 3 million, but it offers the potential for avoiding these horrible pain crises and organ damage and early death.

Taylor Wilson:

Karen, why might FDA approval be a big step, especially for people of color, who say they've had to advocate for themselves to get basic medical attention?

Karen Weintraub:

So sickle cell is much more common among people of color, particularly African-Americans. It's much more common in Sub-Saharan Africa, people who have ancestry in that part of the world and in India, and among people with Hispanic origin, Latino origin. Frankly, they need extremely powerful drugs just to function at a minimal level when they're in a pain crisis. When people show up in the hospital and they say, "I need this very powerful drug at this very powerful dose," they're often looked at as drug seeking as criminals looking for drugs. I've talked to people who say, they dress up and wear makeup to show up in the hospital, so they don't look like drug addicts. Doctors who've told me they bring their white spouse or relative with them to look more legitimate and less like a drug addict.

And the research funding for sickle cell has been lower. The last really good treatment for sickle cell was approved in 1998, before this. So it's really been kind of a backwater in terms of research, before this. So it's a major step and a major step in terms of bringing attention to this disease. About a hundred thousand patients in the US have sickle cell. That's an estimate, we really don't know how many patients have it. But 5 million people are estimated to have it worldwide, most in countries that don't have the kind of health systems where they can offer two or $3 million or very complicated therapies to people. So we're still a long way from solving the sickle cell problem.

Taylor Wilson:

All right, Karen Weintraub covers Health for USA today. Thank you, Karen.

Karen Weintraub:

Thank you.

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Taylor Wilson:

Well, he passed the state bar at 17 years old, and this week Peter Park became the youngest practicing prosecutor in California at the age of 18. While in high school, Park enrolled in a four-year juris doctor program at Northwestern California University School of Law. He did so under a state bar rule that allows students to apply to law school through the completion of college level proficiency exams. Park said, he became a prosecutor because he's driven by "a moral obligation to uphold liberty, equality, and justice in society."

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And before we go, did you know, The Excerpt is now on YouTube? All our episodes podcasts and podcasts are now being posted to our YouTube playlist. We have a link in today's show notes. And thanks for listening to The Excerpt. Be sure to stay tuned tomorrow for a discussion on the future of Gaza with one-time Palestinian presidential candidate and the current leader of the Palestinian National Initiative, Mustafa Barghouti. And I'll be back Monday with more of The Excerpt from USA TODAY.

This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: The Excerpt podcast: Appeals court upholds Trump gag order