The Excerpt podcast: Republicans turn on each other in fourth debate

On today's episode of The Excerpt podcast: USA TODAY National Political Correspondent Phillip M. Bailey recaps the fourth GOP presidential primary debate. Former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is leaving Congress. Released hostages slam Israel, saying they feared airstrikes 'would kill us.' The top 1% of American earners now control more wealth than the nation's entire middle class. Norman Lear has died at 101.

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Hit play on the player above to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript below. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

Taylor Wilson:

Good morning and Happy Hanukkah. I'm Taylor Wilson and today is Thursday, December 7th, 2023. This is The Excerpt. Today, a look at last night's GOP debate, plus Kevin McCarthy is leaving Congress and we remember Norman Lear.

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And then there were four, Republican candidates took the stage again last night for the fourth GOP primary debate, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, and entrepreneur, Vivek Ramaswamy clashed on a number of issues and again addressed the elephant in the room, front-runner Donald Trump. I caught up with USA TODAY National Political Correspondent Phillip M. Bailey after the debate for a recap. Phillip, thanks for making some time for us.

Phillip M. Bailey:

Taylor, what's going on?

Taylor Wilson:

So Philip, there was a focus, especially early in the night, it felt on former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley. How did candidates go after her?

Phillip M. Bailey:

Well, look, I think that Nikki Haley is clearly positioned herself as I'm the chief rival to Donald Trump. Her campaign hours before the debate alluded to this, saying "This is a two-person race between one man and one woman." That could be either a reference to Donald Trump, or maybe even President Joe Biden. And guess what? Her opponents probably understand that too. They see her climbing in the polls. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, Ohio, biotech engineer, Vivek Ramaswamy, who's certainly been after Nikki Haley in the previous debates, you saw them double team her at the early, early outgoings. I mean, really as soon as the debate started. So as far as the people on stage, the four candidates on stage, let's not forget Governor Chris Christie, she was the front-runner on stage, but as we all know, it's the elephant not in the room, Donald Trump is still by far top dog boss of the Republican Party right now. Wednesday was about who's jockeying for that number two spot.

Taylor Wilson:

And you mentioned Trump, obviously, the front-runner at this point skipped out on another debate here, Phillip, but how did he factor into the night?

Phillip M. Bailey:

Look, I think more so than any other debate, the questions from News Nation moderators focused on is Donald Trump fit for office. What about his policy positions? This reintroduction of the so-called Muslim Band. What about his comments about being a possible dictator? His comments about the US Constitution. Each of these candidates has tried to serve Donald Trump's popularity and dominance in the Republican primary in different ways. Obviously, the most aggressive towards him is former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who struggled to get on the debate stage, certainly not very popular in Republican circles for his criticism of the former president. And he came out describing Donald Trump as an angry, bitter man who's going to return to the White House, basically to exact retribution on anyone who's ever disagreed with him. Anyone who's tried to hold him accountable. He has certainly prosecuted and mentioned his multiple criminal and civil cases that Donald Trump is facing.

Ron DeSantis, the Governor of Florida, tried to play it both ways a little bit. He would say things like, "Hey, father time is undefeated." Age is going to be a big issue in this 2024 race. So DeSantis brought up Donald Trump isn't as young as he used to be. He's not as quick as he used to be. He isn't the same Donald Trump. Christie then challenged DeSantis to say, "You're not really answering the question, is he fit for office, you're talking about his age." Ramaswamy, who has basically advertised himself as Trump 2.0 probably had one of the funnier lines saying that everyone on this stage has been, "licking Donald Trump's boots for money and endorsements." But conveniently he's questioning his decision-making as president now.

What I thought was interesting, Taylor, is that Haley didn't really go after Trump and his fitness or his personality, but did go from a policy standpoint in a different direction saying that she wouldn't advocate for a quote, "straight up Muslim ban." Saying it's not about religion, it's not about ethnicity, it's about the countries that people come from that represent a threat or have terrorist leanings represent a threat to the United States. Haley, perhaps seeing that going after Trump directly will alienate his voters. We got the never-Trump people, but there are a lot of maybe Trump voters still out there less than 40 days or so until the Iowa caucuses that she's clearly trying to court.

Taylor Wilson:

And Philip, what were some of the other major issues that caught your attention?

Phillip M. Bailey:

I think the issue of parental rights also showed a dividing line here. Chris Christie sort of walking out there and saying, "Hey look, I don't want to have the government tell me how to parent. And as a conservative who believes in small government, you other conservative parents shouldn't want the government regulating how you deal with your family and the issue of trans rights, right? Like if your child does want to transition, that's a family issue. That's not something the government should be involved in." DeSantis, very quickly, Taylor interrupting that and saying, "This is mutilation of children."

What's interesting though is what didn't come up, abortion. And I think that's because the candidates who have been dropping out, Tim Scott, Senator of South Carolina, former Vice President Mike Pence. They were the more evangelical pro-life advocates and candidates who supported, or at least alluded to supporting a nationwide abortion ban, or a nationwide restriction on abortion. Christie, DeSantis, and Haley have all I think made it very, very clear that they do not believe, even though they say that they're pro-life, they are not in favor of abortion, don't believe that that's something that can be accomplished at the congressional federal level. So I think the reason it didn't come up is because that debate has been rather resolved within this Republican primary because the other side has all dropped out. So what didn't come up to me was just as interesting as the issues that did.

Taylor Wilson:

And Phillip, as we now turn the page toward 2024, what are you keeping an eye on in this race?

Phillip M. Bailey:

The voters have the most important say, and I'm very eager now to see if we do see a surprise. If we do see how well DeSantis does with the endorsement of Iowa Governor Cameron Reynolds in the Iowa caucuses. Do we see Nikki Haley overperform either in Iowa, or New Hampshire and how well she does in her home state of South Carolina? And if Donald Trump loses some of those first rounds, does he acknowledge that? Will he admit that he lost? And if he does win those first early states, do those other candidates simply drop out and go? And then we shift to a conversation about these third-party candidates like the former Congresswoman, Liz Cheney, and others. This I think is where we're beginning to really see what 2024 is about.

Taylor Wilson:

All right. Phillip M. Bailey is a national political correspondent for USA TODAY. Thanks as always, Phillip.

Phillip M. Bailey:

No problem, man.

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Taylor Wilson:

Former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is leaving Congress this year and will not run for reelection in 2024. It's not clear what he'll do next, but he's promised to stay involved in Republican politics. McCarthy became Speaker after 15 rounds of voting in January, but he was then ousted 10 months later by a conservative rebellion. His departure narrows the already razor-thin GOP majority in the House. After his resignation, Republicans will control the chamber by just a three-seat margin. Following McCarthy's departure, California Governor Gavin Newsom must declare a special election to fill the vacancy within 14 days, according to California law. After that declaration, the election must be held within 126 to 140 days.

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Released hostages and the families of people still being held captive by Hamas slammed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu yesterday during a heated meeting. He and his colleagues argued that the only way to obtain concessions from Hamas is through a military campaign. And some relatives of hostages shouted shame as Netanyahu raised the question of how to get them back. Dani Miran, the father of a male hostage, told Israel's, Channel 13, according to Reuters, "This entire performance was ugly, insulting, messy." He said he walked out midway through the meeting because he was so upset. One released hostage said she and others were in tunnels, terrified that Israel would kill them during constant airstrikes, according to portions of audio published by Israel's Ynetnews. Another former hostage raised the alarm about plans to flush out Hamas fighters from tunnels under Gaza. Some families of hostages have accused Netanyahu of prioritizing the destruction of Hamas over freeing hostages. Netanyahu has argued that it wasn't until Israel's ground incursion in Gaza that Hamas was willing to negotiate their release.

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The top 1% of American earners now control more wealth than the nation's entire middle class. According to Federal Reserve statistics through the middle of 2023, the top percent holds more than a quarter of all US household wealth, and low-income Americans representing the bottom 20% by income own about 3% of the wealth. 30 years ago, America's middle class owned about twice as much wealth as the top 1%, but the rich have grown steadily richer over the years. And Owen Zidar, a Princeton University economist, says the number of people worth $10 million, or more has more than doubled since 2000. While the number of people worth 100 million or more has more than quadrupled.

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Norman Lear has died. The legendary television producer made a profound impact with shows like All In The Family, Maude, and The Jeffersons. He often challenged TV norms with controversial series. After a decade of silly shows about hillbilly millionaires and island castaways Lear and his producing partner, Bud Yorkin surprised viewers with the bracing CBS comedy, All in the Family in the seventies. The series was an adaptation of a British show and tackled issues of racial prejudice, sexism, social inequality, and the Vietnam War. Off the screen, Lear was politically involved. He formed the organization People for the American Way in 1981 in defense of the separation of church and state as an answer to rising right-wing religious groups. Still, he called himself a bleeding-heart conservative and was a supporter of the Constitution. He once paid $8 million for a copy of the Declaration of Independence and displayed it on tour in the early 2000s. Norman Lear was 101 years old.

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And be sure to stay tuned to The Excerpt this afternoon when my colleague Dana Taylor speaks with USA TODAY border reporter Lauren Villagran about rising migrant deaths at the El Paso-Juárez border. You can find the episode right here on this feed. Thanks for listening to The Excerpt. You can get the podcast wherever you get your audio. If you use a smart speaker, just ask for The Excerpt. I'm back tomorrow with more of The Excerpt from USA TODAY.

This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: The Excerpt podcast: Chris Christie, Nikki Haley in fourth debate