The Excerpt podcast: Rudy Giuliani ordered to pay $148 million to two election workers

On Saturday's episode of The Excerpt podcast: Rudy Giuliani has been ordered to pay millions to two election workers he defamed. The Israeli Defense Forces said yesterday that they mistakenly shot and killed three Israeli hostages in Gaza who soldiers misidentified as threats. USA TODAY Congress, Campaigns and Democracy Reporter Sudiksha Kochi looks at how the fentanyl crisis is hitting Indigenous communities. Homelessness is on the rise. Listen to a special episode here. USA TODAY Personal Finance Reporter Daniel de Visé warns of the hidden dangers to deferred interest payment plans.

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Hit play on the player above to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript below. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text

Taylor Wilson:

Good morning. I'm Taylor Wilson and today is Saturday, December 16th, 2023. This is The Excerpt. Today, Rudy Giuliani has been ordered to pay a massive sum of money to Georgia election workers he defamed. Plus, Israel's military says it has mistakenly killed Israeli hostages. And we look at the effect of the fentanyl crisis on Native American communities.

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A federal jury has ordered Rudy Giuliani, who worked as campaign lawyer for Donald Trump, to pay $148 million in damages to two 2020 Georgia election workers for falsely accusing them of election fraud. There was an audible gasp in the courtroom when the jury foreperson read aloud the damage awards for Ruby Freeman and her daughter, Shaye Moss. Giuliani has vowed to appeal and said quote, "The absurdity of the amount is indicative of the absurdity and unfairness of the entire proceeding," unquote. US District Judge Beryl Howell previously ruled that Giuliani had defamed the women by falsely accusing them of stuffing ballot boxes on election night while counting votes in Atlanta's State Farm Arena. An eight-person jury began deliberations Thursday to determine how much he owed them in damages.

Ruby Freeman said that money won't erase the damage Giuliani's lies caused. She also asked people not to be angry with the threatening mobs who gathered at her home and harassed her family.

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The Israeli defense forces said yesterday that they mistakenly shot and killed three Israeli hostages in Gaza, whose soldiers misidentified as threats. An IDF spokesperson said the military encountered the hostages yesterday and it wasn't clear if they had escaped or been abandoned by Hamas captors. The Israeli military said the incident happened in an active combat zone. The mistaken killings come as the Biden administration and Israel are working to free more than a 100 hostages who remain in Gaza, and after leaked audio reported by CNN last week from meetings between recently freed hostages and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, revealing anger at the Israeli government over its conduct in the Israel Hamas war that they claimed put them in danger. Netanyahu has said his top priority is securing the release of remaining hostages in Gaza and has vowed to continue the war until Hamas is defeated. Meanwhile, US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan met with Palestinian President Mahmood Abbas yesterday to discuss Gaza's post-war future. According to a statement from his office, Abbas called for an immediate ceasefire and more aid for Gaza.

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The US has said that it wants to see both Gaza and the West Bank under a revitalized Palestinian authority, which Abbas currently leads. Israel's Netanyahu rejects that idea. The fentanyl crisis is slamming Native American communities, and indigenous leaders say the current conversation around solutions often misses the heart of the issue. I spoke with USA Today Congress, Campaigns and Democracy Reporter Sudiksha Kochi for more. Sudiksha, thanks for hopping on The Excerpt.

Sudiksha Kochi:

Thank you so much for having me.

Taylor Wilson:

How common are fentanyl-related tragedies among Native Americans and just how big of an issue is this, Sudiksha?

Sudiksha Kochi:

This is actually a very big issue. Native Americans are disproportionately impacted by the fentanyl crisis. Deaths from fentanyl and other synthetic opioids have exploded among Native Americans actually, from 1.2 deaths per 100,000 in 2013 to 33.6 deaths per 100,000 in 2021. We also have data that shows overdose deaths for Native Americans are actually well above the national average. So it is a very common issue in Native American reservations, in tribal lands, and it is an issue that does disproportionately impact Native Americans.

Taylor Wilson:

Sudiksha, we've heard some politicians talking about the border and border security and how it fits in here. How does the issue of border security fit into this conversation? I know a lot of GOP politicians, for instance, and others have brought this up.

Sudiksha Kochi:

Yeah. So this is actually a common talking point among a lot of Republican candidates. Every single time they hit the debate stage or on the campaign trail, when voters ask them how would they address the fentanyl crisis, the border is the first solution that they bring up. And in the past year, US customs and border protection have seized more than 26,000 pounds of fentanyl coming from the southwest border. So that's why a lot of Republican candidates focus on the border when it comes to enforcing a solution to the fentanyl crisis. For instance, former president Donald Trump, who is the 2024 GOP front-runner, said in a campaign video that drug cartels were waging war on America and that now it's time for America to wage war on cartels. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis said during the third GOP debate in November that as president he would send the military to the border. He also supports building a wall, which is something that the Trump administration did not accomplish. In categorizing Mexican drug cartels as foreign terrorist organizations, both businessmen Vivek Ramaswamy and former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley have also wanted to take action against Mexico.

Taylor Wilson:

Sudiksha, what other factors are playing a role here and what do Native American leaders want for solutions?

Sudiksha Kochi:

Yeah. The biggest thing that I think Native Americans want the GOP candidates to know, is that the border is not the only solution to fighting the fentanyl crisis. I spoke to a lot of Native Americans who said that not everyone on reservations have health insurance or can afford a 10,000 a day bed at a rehab facility if they do want to combat a fentanyl addiction. Another thing that is overlooked when it comes to solving the fentanyl crisis is the healthcare shortage in Native American communities. We do have agencies like the Indian Health Service, which provides grants to tribal communities for addiction treatment, but that funding isn't often enough to meet demand. Actually, a 2022 federal report found that funding for the Indian Health Service only addresses an estimated 48.6% of the healthcare needs of American Indians and Alaska natives, which is actually not a lot. Other factors that Native Americans want the GOP candidates to address is mental health and homelessness. In 2019, nearly 18.7% of American Indians and Alaska natives faced a mental health crisis and mental health can play a huge role when it comes to the fentanyl crisis.

The other thing that Native Americans also want GOP candidates to focus on is homelessness, which also drives the fentanyl crisis. A 2017 estimate found that there were actually 42,000 to 85,000 homeless Native Americans on tribal lands.

Taylor Wilson:

All right. Sudiksha Kochi, important story. Thanks for doing it and coming on and discussing it with us.

Sudiksha Kochi:

Thank you so much for having me.

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Taylor Wilson:

The number of homeless people in America grew in 2023. Homelessness shot up more than 12% this year, representing tens of thousands more people, and the sharpest increase since the federal government began tallying totals in 2007, according to the Department of Urban Planning and Development. It's also the largest unhoused population recorded, now reaching more than 653,000 people. A number of factors are at play but the cost of housing is part of the story. Workers must earn double the federal minimum wage to afford a two-bedroom rental in every state, according to data from the National Low Income Housing Coalition. For a deeper dive into this topic be sure to check out my colleague Dana Taylor's special episode this week, talking about potential solutions to the housing crisis with Mary Cunningham from the Urban Institute. We have a link to the episode in today's show notes.

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A popular payment plan offered by retailers promises no interest if you pay off your purchase within a set period of time. It sounds good until you read the fine print. I caught up with USA Today Personal Finance Reporter Daniel de Visé for more. Daniel, thanks for hopping on.

Daniel de Vise:

Always a pleasure, sir.

Taylor Wilson:

So Daniel, what are these deferred interest plans?

Daniel de Vise:

You walk into a big box retailer and you pick out your $1,500 refrigerator. And you're told that you can take it home with no interest, as long as you pay it off within six months or 12 months. It's a zero interest payment plan, and I've used it. Lots of us have used it. They've been around for many years.

Taylor Wilson:

Daniel, just how popular are these really with Americans?

Daniel de Vise:

They're really popular. I didn't realize quite how popular. I think $60 billion in sales in 2020, which is the most recent year. Now the buy now pay later is growing, but it's still I think much smaller. So it's a really, really popular way to buy stuff that's a little more than you can fit into your weekly budget.

Taylor Wilson:

What concerns do consumer advocates have about these?

Daniel de Vise:

Quite a lot and here's the reason. It's sort of counterintuitive but the deal is, you're supposed to pay it off by the end of the promotional period. If you do that, if you pay off every dollar of it in the six months or the 12 months, then you have no interest due. But if you fail to pay it off, even if $1 remains on the balance, then you have all of the interest due. And that means, and this is the counterintuitive part, you will owe interest on debt you've already repaid. I guess some people in the personal finance space would say that's positively un-American.

Taylor Wilson:

Well, can deferred interest be a useful tool for some people, Daniel?

Daniel de Vise:

As I said, I've used it myself. If you're the kind of person who is good about keeping track of these things, it can be a marvelous way to buy something that, again, costs more than you might have in your weekly paycheck. Let's say it's a big television, back when those cost a lot. I bought one. A refrigerator, a stove, a home improvement project, you can put them on these plans. You're basically getting, in most cases, a store credit card. If you don't already have one, you'll get a new one and the purchase goes on that card. And as long as you make all of the payments and pay off all of the balance in the allotted time, it can be a really good deal because as I say, you pay no interest. The problem comes if you fail to pay off the entire balance. The day after that deadline, you'd get slapped then with possibly hundreds or even thousands of dollars in interest.

Taylor Wilson:

Yeah, obviously that can be a huge problem. So Daniel, is there any movement legislatively to push back against these types of payment plans?

Daniel de Vise:

Well,

Consumer advocates have pushed to ban this form of payment plan outright. Now, according to WalletHub, which tracks this stuff really closely, you can get deferred interest on Amazon or at the Home Depot or Best Buy and many other really reputable, really beloved retailers. But other places like Target and Costco don't do it. If some of the advocates out there had their way, it would not be legal. But it is legal. Again, the people I interviewed for this story said, "If you're going to use deferred interest, just be careful and make absolutely certain that you do not miss a payment. And that you look at the fine print and figure out exactly when the promotion runs out, and that you don't owe even 5 cents on that balance on that date."

Taylor Wilson:

Daniel, you wrote about some possible alternatives for folks who might be looking at these deferred interest plans. Do you want to tell our listeners about some of these?

Daniel de Vise:

Sure. One is just a straightforward zero APR credit card. You can get those, I mean you can go on your computer and get one right now. Those are just across the board zero interest credit cards. You can put any purchase on them and the zero interest period might be 15 months or 18 months. And for those months, you pay no interest. Now the difference, and this is crucial, is that at the end of that promotional period you will then owe interest going forward on the remaining balance, but they won't retroactively charge you interest that's been deferred. Also, buy now pay later, it's somewhat controversial. But the experts I interviewed said it's probably preferable to deferred interest. Because buy now pay later, it's basically an installment purchase you might pay in five or six installments. Often those do include some interest in fees, but often they don't. And you can shop around so it might be preferable.

Taylor Wilson:

All right. Daniel de Visé covers personal finance for USA Today. Great info and advice, as always Daniel. Thanks so much.

Daniel de Vise:

Happy holidays.

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Taylor Wilson:

Thanks for listening to The Excerpt. I'm back tomorrow when I'll be joined by USA Today's Sports Project Reporter Steve Berkowitz, discussing the latest conversation around pay for play in college sports. You can find the episode right here on this feed. And if you have any comments, you can always find us at podcasts@usatoday.com. Until next time, I'm Taylor Wilson. Thanks for listening to The Excerpt from USA Today.

This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: The Excerpt podcast: Rudy Giuliani ordered to pay $148 million