Former Gov Pat McCrory on COVID-19, prep sports, his biggest regret, George Floyd protests
It seems like Pat McCrory has been in government forever.
In 1989, he was elected as an at-large city councilman in Charlotte. In 1995, at 39, he became Charlotte’s youngest mayor and remained a fairly popular one throughout a 14-year run. In the 2007 mayoral election, for example, he beat seven-term Democratic state Rep. Beverly Earle 61 to 39 percent.
After a failed run for Governor in 2008, McCrory ran again in 2012, beating Democratic lieutenant governor Walton Dalton 55 percent to 43 percent. He was the first Republican governor in 20 years.
In 2016, McCrory lost a tightly-contested race with Roy Cooper. He became the first sitting N.C. Governor to lose since a constitutional amendment in the ‘70s gave governors the ability to seek more than one four-year term.
McCrory was a guest on the Observer’s streaming sports show, “Talking Preps” this week and talked about his past and his future. He also talked about COVID-19’s impact on the state, the George Floyd protests, his biggest regret, and what his plan to reopen N.C. schools and restart N.C. sports might’ve looked like.
His answers are lightly edited for brevity and clarity.
Q. If you were still in Raleigh, what would your plan to reopen North Carolina have looked like? And do you think we’ve gone about it the right way?
“I think the only criticism I have of not just North Carolina, but all the other states, I think (is) after the first two weeks, everyone was doing it right. But once we got the statistics from Washington State, it was pretty apparent that over 80 percent of the fatalities of this tragic virus were directed toward the elderly, and most of the elderly with pre-existing conditions.
So, I would put 80 percent of the policies directed toward protecting the elderly, especially the nursing homes, and the workers who work within those nursing homes, and also the hospitals, and their workers, because that seems to be where the most fatalities are currently happening in every state. North Carolina is following the exact same pattern. And I would probably put a stronger quarantine on them, as opposed to putting a quarantine on the entire industry. I think the only other issue related to this ... is picking winners and losers on what industries can open or not open needed to be more transparent on how the decisions are being made.”
Q. What kinds of people would you have helping you make those decisions in North Carolina right now, both about COVID-19 and the tricky questions around reopening schools?
“Well first of all, I don’t think you can just have government people. In fact it’s kind of ironic, I could play a little devil’s advocate. Every government job was determined essential, and they were making decisions for non-government people in the private sector and nonprofit sector about which were essential jobs. So I think the people that would help make those decisions, first of all, you probably would need to include some other members of government ... but I would also include members of manufacturing, members of the travel and tourism industry, members of the five or six major sectors of business, non-profit and profit, and also have at that table secondary education and K-through-12 education. I’d probably make it about 12 people representing sectors of business and one of those sectors of business has got to be small business.”
Q. Are you going to run for office again? (Rumors have McCrory considering a 2022 Senate bid)
“I don’t know yet. I’m given a very honest answer about that. I served six years on the Charlotte city council. I served 14 years as mayor and then four years as governor. I loved every minute of it, and I do feel like there’s a calling of public service. But I also have to look at other factors of family and so I’ll be weighing that sometime probably next year. But it’s a huge decision. I’ve run three statewide campaigns, and it’s very wearing physically, emotionally and financially. But I’ll continue to be a sounding board and hopefully now, as I’ve got more wisdom and age, I can provide some sort of relevance to some tough decisions that have to be made in our city, our state, in our country, and I’d like to continue to be relevant in that way, now that I’m the one with the experience of both successes and problems that I’ve had.”
Q. What message would you have for N.C. high school coaches and teachers as they try to speak with the students and student-athletes who have lost seasons and classroom instruction due to COVID-19?
“Well I think not only just with the virus, but also with this current terrible tragedy and abuse that occurred in Minnesota, I think we need to teach the new generation, put some benchmarks, related to other historical events, so people can see the events that are going on and put that in perspective.
“I think that’s what’s lacking from our government leaders and also from the media in the three major issues that we’re dealing with today. One is the virus. The other is the economy. And now of course the race relations and the public safety issue which is just dominating and has transformed our country during this past week. But our country’s gone through these things. We can’t forget history. So I will tell you as a teacher, put it in perspective of other historical events, not just in the United States but also in other countries.”
Q. How do you think the state of North Carolina should go about reopening schools in the fall?
“One of the problems we have, that I was hoping to correct my second term, is that we really have no one in charge of our public schools based upon our constitutional structure in North Carolina. We have a superintendent of schools that’s elected with very little power, that doesn’t report to the governor. We have a school board that’s then appointed by the governor, but really has no jurisdiction over the superintendent of schools. And then you have your 100 counties in North Carolina with their own school superintendents and, frankly, most of them go ‘My bosses are the (local) school boards, and the state school superintendent means nothing to me.’ So, had I won a second term, one of the things I was going to recommend was reorganizing and having one or two people, or one board, accountable for the success or failure of education.
“What’s ironic, in governors elections, often governors bring up, ‘I’m going to fight for education,’ when in fact the governor really has very little authority over education, and by the way that includes the universities, too. I was very shocked at that.”
Q. Assuming schools open in the fall, how should sports be incorporated into that?
“Well, I think they should be incorporated ... I think would be a mistake not to reopen athletics and incorporate them into the strategic plan, having athletics and music and other things being a part of a student’s life.
“But I also want to look at the science. Young people seem to have the immune system to fight this virus. It’s really targeting the elderly, which pneumonia also does.”
Q. As we’re looking to reopen North Carolina, what are you thoughts on masks as a part of that strategy?
“I think masks ought to be a part of it. One of the hesitations is that the health experts, just two months ago, were hesitant to recommend masks for several reasons. One was, it would give people overconfidence that that’s going to protect him. And the second reason is most of us are going to misuse them, and take them off, put our hands on our face. I’m seeing a lot of people misuse gloves. So I think it’s wise to use masks at the appropriate time. But I also think we need more education on the mask. The mask is more to protect someone else from me, not the other way around. And I think there’s some misinformation on that, but I think mask ought to be part of the plan, one of many parts of the plan in the future.”
Q. So as we restart the economy, do you listen to the scientists or the business people? How do you balance that?
“One thing I’ve learned in my time in leadership was you don’t listen to any one group at one time. You listen to various groups together at the same table. So I’d listen to the health experts in one silo, and by the way, you can’t just listen to the virus health experts either. At that same table, you need to hear the input of people being impacted by suicide or domestic violence or alcoholism ... But the health experts, you need them at the table but you’ll also need the experts on the economy, because if the economy falls too much you will also cause long term harm to society and to the health and safety of us as individuals.
“I read five newspapers a day. I still read books about the history (to) continue to educate me about the history so we can make the right decisions on the future. And I don’t just watch Fox (News). I watch MSNBC. I watch CNN. I watch PBS. I pull up the Huffington Post. I pull up Drudge Report. I bought pull up Breitbart, because there is no one good news source anymore. Everyone has their own bias. And we as individuals need to filter through that bias, and it’s kind of sad right now. You know when many of us grew up together, my age group, we all listened to the same music. I listened to Motown and the Beatles on the same station. And now the media is almost putting us into segregated silos and not just music, but news. And I think that’s a corrosive part of our society now — that we only listen to the people we agree with. I actually like being around people who strongly disagree with me, so we can have an intellectual discussion on all sides of these complex issues.”
Q. American was mesmerized by “The Last Dance,” and we heard stories about you officiating Michael Jordan. What were thoughts about it?
“I watched every episode. I’ve probably seen it two or three times, in fact. I was a high school basketball referee between 1978 and ‘89. And also during that time I did some small college ball. I used to do the ACC barnstorming games, where players would make a little money after they left school, and I refereed Jordan at A.L. Brown High School in Kannapolis, and I called traveling on him. The last couple times we saw each other, he was still complaining about the traveling call, and I said ‘You traveled every time you moved your pivot foot.’
“Jordan’s a part of history now, and it’s good for kids to see. I think the the one basketball player that’s forgotten that probably had the biggest impact on society is Bill Russell. I’ll never forget Bill Russell, Lew Alcindor (now Kareem Abdul Jabbar), Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown. To me, there needs to be a special on those five or six individuals that I thought took enormous political and financial risks. That’s the history. I grew up in that time.”
Q. We’re hopefully coming back to sports. Do you think fans will be allowed in? For high school football, for example, attendance is huge to help schools with revenue made from the gate.
“Well, again, this is where we go back to the science, which I don’t think is being talked enough about, and the science is showing the people that are most harmed by this terrible virus (are) the elderly. Old people like me, too, 65 and over. I’m 63 now. And if I were the Panthers or Hornets or high school, I’d probably go, for people over a certain age, especially for people that have fought cancer or have diabetes or other symptoms of immune systems that are weak, that if they get this virus, there’s a good chance they will live until we get some solutions. I would probably of — instead of saying let’s have no fans — I would probably set forth a rule of going there are certain people sadly, it’s not fair, but cannot come (to the games) ... Over 80 percent of the deaths are a small percentage of the demographics of our society right now and again, sadly, primarily in nursing homes where my mom was at one time, too.”
Q. What do you have to say about the George Floyd protests we’ve seen, particularly in Charlotte and Raleigh?
“The only thing that disturbs me about the protests right now is you have anarchists involved in these crowds. We had them in Charlotte in 2016 (during the Keith Scott protests). That’s why I called the National Guard. Literally we only had 300 protesters in Charlotte (in 2016), but we had about 20 anarchists, and they’re the ones who caused all the disturbance that required (the) National Guard. It doesn’t take many people to cause chaos because that’s what’s happening in DC, in Minnesota, Charlotte, Greensboro, and those are the people we have to be tough with, and then show respect to the protesters. But the anarchists don’t give a damn, excuse my language, about the cause, or the other protesters or our way of life, or government or capitalism. Their goal is to destroy society, and it doesn’t take many to do that.”
Q. Are you concerned about huge racing crowds at ACE Speedway in the eastern part of the state and the Floyd protests causing a spike in North Carolina COVID-19 cases?
“I think it will go up. I think it was a matter of time. The main reason we had the lockdown and closer businesses was so we wouldn’t have the immediate rush to our hospitals. It was to flatten the curve. Well, we flattened the curve. And I didn’t know it meant that we would always have to have that ... Frankly, I think everyone under 65, sooner or later, is probably going to get this virus and we’ll have antibodies that deal with it. And the people we gotta keep this virus away from are the elderly or those with pre-existing conditions. And those are, again the diabetics, people that are extremely overweight, too, and then I’ve got a couple friends fighting cancer right now. I mean, I call them up every night. I said ‘I’ll kill you if you step out of the house.’”
Q. What were your thoughts about high school sports having attended Ragsdale High in Jamestown and how in tune were you to high school sports when you were Governor?
“I’m never told anyone this. I played peewee football, junior high football and JV football, and then I knew I wouldn’t be starting (on varsity). I was very small. I was 5-6, 5-4 in high school. I didn’t grow until college. And my biggest regret in life is not trying out for the football team that year. I think I went to the beach instead. I was interested in girls. One of my biggest regrets is not being on that football team. My brother was starting end on that football team.
“I ended up running for Student Body President, got into government. That was the beginning of my downfall (laughs). I started a tennis team at Ragsdale and I played college tennis for a couple years, but sports is an outlet, and you know it’s great seeing more girls and and women in sports too. I think that it’s so good for society. I think the dilemma is going to be is the affordability of sports, and universities are going to be in a tough financial shape, and you’re seeing schools like Appalachian State already dropping sports. I think if I were the ACC commissioner (John Swofford) right now, I would probably save money, confine sports travel for the minor sports, to say North and South Carolina, like the old ACC; but to take teams all the way up to Syracuse or to Florida under these financial conditions would be pretty tough. I’d make some inner conferences within these large conferences that are primarily set up for basketball and football. High school sports. I think are extremely crucial. I wish everyone in the school could play a sport.
Q. Let’s put you back in the Governor’s mansion for a second. What would you do to heal the state and get us past COVID-19 and the protests?
“I think we just need to just have direct talk. Don’t attack anyone. Don’t call anyone names. Benchmark against historic past and give some aspirations of where we want to go in the future. And right now, there needs to be peer pressure against the small group of people that want to bring chaos. We’re an imperfect nation, just like we’re imperfect human beings. And with an imperfect nation, you have to recognize your faults and build upon them, but we’ll never be perfect. We’re always going to have some imperfect police officers. We had them when I was mayor. We had them when I was governor, and we’re going to have them for future governors and future presidents. But we want to reduce that risk. But we have to understand the reality is each of us have these fallacies — physical, mental, biases ... You work on the imperfections, but you’ll never resolve them.”
