French election 2022: Macron and Le Pen clash in presidential debate over far-right candidate Russia links

Emmanuel Macron and Marine Le Pen have clashed over the far-right leader’s links with Russia in a live television debate ahead of the upcoming election.

The incumbent president said Ms Le Pen was “dependent on Putin” and called Russia her “banker” as he launched into fierce criticism over a loan taken from a Russian bank in 2014. The National Rally leader denied her independence was compromised by this.

The two candidates also clashed over energy - in particular renewables - and Muslim headscarves in public spaces, with the Mr Macron saying Ms Le Pen’s plans to ban them would start a “civil war”.

Mr Macron, a pro-European centrist, has been enjoying a growing and significant lead over Ms Le Pen, an anti-immigration nationalist, according to polls. But the result is expected to be closer than five years ago.

Bookmakers said more than a quater of French voters were waiting for the debate to decide how - or whether - to vote in the final round of the presidential election on Sunday.

Key Points

• Key takeaways from debate

• Key quotes from debate

• Clash over Marine Le Pen Russian bank loan

• Le Pen Muslim headscarf policy ‘would create civil war’, Macron says

• Le Pen wants to create hydrogen from nuclear energy; Macron rubbishes idea

• Second round of French election to be held on Sunday

16:26 , Zoe Tidman

Good afternoon and welcome to our live coverage of the French election debate, which is set to kick off shortly.

What happened in the first round of voting?

18:28 , Zoe Tidman

The two candidates are going to face each other in a head-to-head vote on Sunday, following the results of the first round.

Catch up on what happened ahead of tonight’s debate:

French election: Emmanuel Macron to face Marine Le Pen in round two

How are things looking for Emmanuel Macron?

18:30 , Zoe Tidman

French President Emmanuel Macron has a more than 90 per cent chance of winning Sunday’s presidential runoff vote against far-right challenger Marine Le Pen, the odds offered by UK political bookmakers showed on Wednesday.

Macron has seen his lead in opinion polls edge higher over the past few days to over 55 per cent on average against 5 per cent in favor of his rival whom he will face in a debate later on Wednesday.

The websites of William Hill and Paddy Power gave odds implying a 90.9 per cent chance for the incumbent, while the Betfair Exchange had 92.6 per cent and Ladbrokes 94.1 per cent.

Reuters

Watch debate

18:55 , Zoe Tidman

The debate will be kicking off in an hour.

I’ll be posting updates throughout here. Or for the full thing, you can watch live on the English-language France 24:

Watch France 24 Live - France 24

More than a quarter waiting for debate to decide how or whether to vote, poll finds

18:59 , Zoe Tidman

The debate could be a crucial moment in the French presidential election.

Some 14 per cent of voters are waiting for the debate to decide who to vote for, while 12 per cent say it will be decisive for whether they will vote at all, according to a poll by OpinionWay-Kea Partners for Les Echos newspaper.

Sources on both side said they wanted a calm debate. One close to Emmanuel Macron said it could be “boring” and the president had to show he was “solid.”

A source close to Marine Le Pen said she wanted “a calm debate, project vs project”.

Additional reporting by Reuters

Candidates ‘to try and reach out to undecided voters'

19:16 , Zoe Tidman

Candidates are expected to try and reach out to undecided voters or those who “aren’t even planning to vote” on Sunday, reporter Claire Paccalin says.

Marine Le Pen and the Kremlin

19:34 , Zoe Tidman

Borzou Daragahi, our international correspondent, has taken a look at heightened scrunity over Marine Le Pen’s ties with the Kremlin as the war in Ukraine wages on.

The far-right candidate has previously expressed support for Vladimir Putin - and was even forced to destroy thousands of copies of campaign material that featured photos of the pair after the Ukrainian invasion was launched.

Read his report from Paris here:

As French vote approaches, Le Pen’s Putin ties come under scrutiny

19:57 , Zoe Tidman

The debate is set to kick off shortly. Stay put for updates.

French debate starts

20:06 , Zoe Tidman

And we are off.

Watch here for the debate translated into English:

Question on cost of living

20:10 , Zoe Tidman

Candidates are faced with a question about the cost of living.

Marine Le Pen says she wants to act as the “spokesperson” for the French people and to increase the purchasing power of the population.

Emmanuel Macron says he has noticed there is not anything on unemployement in his far-right opponent’s platform - which suggests there is no problem.

Why would you make a better president? - Le Pen answer

20:26 , Zoe Tidman

Marine Le Pen: “I know our people well. I’ve been meeting them for years. I am forced to be a witness for five years. I’ve seen them suffer, I’ve seen them worry.”

She says she would be the president that would look after everyday concerns, such as purchasing power and schools.

The far-right candidate says she would also restore harmony among the French. “I will be the president of justice. I will be the president of national fraternity. I will be the president of civil peace.”

Why would you make a better president? - Macron answer

20:35 , Zoe Tidman

Emmanuel Macron talks about leading France through difficult periods, including the Covid pandemic and the war being waged in eastern Europe.

“Obviously we are speaking about a time when people are worried or concerned,” he says

The incumbent president talks about the importance of improving daily life and making France “more independent and stronger”.

He also says France will be stronger if it focuses on tackling the climate crisis.

Clash over Marine Le Pen party funding

20:44 , Zoe Tidman

The candidates are now clashing over Marine Le Pen party financing and a decision to take out a loan with a Russian bank.

Emmanuel Macron says neither him - nor his fellow citizens - are going to Russian banks to get loans. “You speak to your banker when you speak to Russia, that’s the problem,” he said.

Ms Le Pen countered by saying she had not been able to get a loan in France and insisted that the transaction in no way compromised her independence.

Her National Rally party has been accused of taking millions of euros in loans from Kremlin-linked banks.

Borzou Daragahi in Paris has more on Russia and Ms Le Pen:

As French vote approaches, Le Pen’s Putin ties come under scrutiny

On the EU

20:48 , Zoe Tidman

Marine Le Pen says she wants to stay in the European Union but to see big changes.

Emmanuel Macron questions whether one country can change a whole organisation.

Jobs for French

20:54 , Zoe Tidman

Marine Le Pen: “My obsession is for French to work in their own country.”

Emmanuel Macron says employers having a preference for nationality would be an end to how the European system works. How about when a French person wants to work elsewhere in Europe, he asks.

Key quotes so far

20:59 , Zoe Tidman

Here is a run-through of some of the key quotes so far:

Cost of living:

Le Pen: “I’ve seen the people suffer, I’ve seen them worry, worry about a downgrading in their quality of life, about a kind of precariousness that they feels is widespread.”

Macron:

“I’ve studied your programme. There isn’t even the word unemployment.”

Russia

Le Pen: “The only sanctions I disagree with is the blocking of Russian oil and gas imports. Why do I disagree? Because in reality it will do no harm to Russia and will do enormous harm to our people.”

Macron on Le Pen’s Russia ties: “You are dependent on power, you are dependent on Putin. You took a loan from a Russian bank.”

Europe

Macron: “Five years ago, your programme was only applicable if France left the Euro. Today, you still want to get out of it but you don’t say so anymore.”

Le Pen:

“I want the European Commission to respect sovereign nations, to respect the choice of the French people, including their choice of society.”

“I want to change this European organisation. But I don’t want to leave it.”

Reuters

What is the Russian loan the candidates clashed about?

21:13 , Zoe Tidman

Marine Le Pen obtained a loan from a Russian bank in 2014 ahead of her run for the presidency in 2017.

Earlier today, Russian opposition leader urged French voters to back Emmanuel Macron as he discussed the €9m from the First Czech Russian Bank, believed to have ties to the Kremlin.

Imprisoned Navalny urges France to vote for Macron because of Le Pen’s Russia links

Macron retirement plans ‘an injustice’ - Le Pen

21:26 , Zoe Tidman

The two candidates have also clashed over the retirement age, which has been a much-debated topic during the election.

Emmanuel Macron wants to increase it to 65, which Marine Le Pen called an “injustice”.

Environment

21:32 , Zoe Tidman

Now we are onto the environment - and the two are exchanging blows.

Emmanuel Macron calls Marine Le Pen “climate-sceptic”. The far-right candidate calls the president a “climate-hypocrite”.

Energy

21:39 , Zoe Tidman

Emmanuel Macron says the only way to deal with the climate crisis is nuclear and renewable energy together.

“We shouldn’t make the errors of the past,” he says.

Marine Le Pen has vowed to push nuclear but scrap subsidies for solar and wind energy.

Debate turns out to be more heated than expected

21:44 , Zoe Tidman

It had been suggested the debate could be relatively boring, with both candidates wanting to give a solid - rather than combattive - performance.

But it has been pretty heated so far, with the candidates accusing the other of getting stuff wrong and interrupting each other.

”Are you joking or what?” Emmanuel Macron just said when Marine Le Pen was talking about energy.

Clash over hydrogen

21:51 , Zoe Tidman

The two have clashed over hydrogen. Marine Le Pen says she wants to make “green hydrogen” from nuclear.

Emmanuel Macron says this is not what the country’s nuclear capacity is for. He also tells her hydrogen “is not an energy source” itself.

Some are mocking this idea from Ms Le Pen on social media:

“To be honest, she should have responded to ‘how do you produce hydrogen?’ with ‘soak it in oil, soak it in water’, she would have almost appeared more competent to me’

‘Illogical’

As well as the exchange between the two on hydrogen:

More key quotes from debate

22:15 , Zoe Tidman

Climate and energy

Macron:

“There is no way out of fossil fuels that relies solely on nuclear. Your strategy is not workable.”

“Even though we have energy needs today, you are not telling me how we will cope with moving beyond fossil fuels, how we will reduce our dependence on Russian gas.”

Le Pen:

“I am in no way a climate change denier. But you, your are something of a climate hypocrite.”

“Free trade kills the planet.”

“You have completely changed your tune on nuclear power... We have wasted 10 years destabilising a nuclear industry that needed to be strengthened to make this carbon-free energy source once again the basis for our energy mix.”

Pension and retirement age

Macron:

“I don’t want to increase our taxes, I don’t want to increase our debt, I even want to start paying it off over the next five years. So I want us to work more, a pillar of which would be to push back the legal retirement age by four months a year until we reach 65 in 2031.”

Le Pen:

“All those who had their first proper job before the age of 20 will be able to retire at 60.”

Reuters

Le Pen Muslim headscarf policy ‘would create civil war’, Macron says

22:28 , Zoe Tidman

One of the hosts has now asked about Muslim headscarves in public.

Marine Le Pen starts going on about an “extremely present” terrorism risk and says she wants to fight against “islamist ideology”.

The host says she did not answer the question about headscarves, to which she replies she wants to ban them in public spaces.

Emmanuel Macron says such a law would be a “betrayal” of the French spirit and speaks passionately about freedom.

He also confuses her of getting “things confused” by mixing up religion and radical islamism.

Ms Le Pen also said: “I think the headscarf is a uniform imposed by Islamists.” She said: “I think a great proportion of young women who are wearing it have no other choice in reality.”

Mr Macron replied: “What you’re saying is very serious. You’re going to create civil war if you do it.”

And now onto immigration...

22:38 , Zoe Tidman

Marine Le Pen says she wants a referendum on immigration - a topic she has been famously tough on.

Throughout this presidential election campaign, she has pushed for ending family reunification policies, restricting social benefits to the French only, and deporting foreigners who stay unemployed for over a year and other migrants who entered illegally.

Emmanuel Macron has also proposed measures to limit immigration, including strengthening external borders of the European passport-free area and creating a new force to better control national borders. He also wants to speed up processing of asylum and residence permit applications and to deport those who aren’t eligible.

Emmanuel Macron’s final remarks

22:48 , Zoe Tidman

We are now into the final remarks.

Emmanuel Macron says he opposes Marine Le Pen‘s politics and her party, but says: “I respect you as a person.”

He dedicates the last part of his final speech to “our children” and says he wants to build a better world to “better protect them”.

Marine Le Pen final remarks

22:53 , Zoe Tidman

Marine Le Pen says she wants to address the “people” and she wants to restore “common sense”.

Key takeaways from debate

23:17 , Zoe Tidman

The debate is now over. Here are some of the key takeaways:

• Marine Le Pen launched into a speech even before the introductory theme music had come to an end, forcing the moderator to ask her to begin again.

• The light-touch moderation meant there were plenty of interruptions, vexed expressions, impatient body language and appeals of: “Can I finish my sentence?”

• Mr Macron dissected each of his opponent’s economic proposals to show the difficulties Ms Le Pen would have in implementing and financing her manifesto.

• A heated exchanges took place over Ms Le Pen’s links to Russia. Mr Macron said she “depends” on Vladimir Putin, but Ms Le Pen said she had not been able to get a loan in France and was “a completely free, independent woman”.

• Mr Macron took aim at Le Pen’s assertion that she wanted France to keep its place within the EU while reforming the bloc. “It is a project which dares not speak its name - and that is to leave Europe.”

• Mr Macron called Ms Le Pen a “climate sceptic” to which she replied by calling him a “climate hypocrite”.

• Ms Le Pen spoke about wanting to ban Muslim headscarves in public places. Mr Macron said this would create a “civil war”.

Additional reporting by Reuters

Second round of French election on Sunday

23:19 , Zoe Tidman

The candidates were hoping to sweep up votes from those who opted for other candidates in the first round.

The second round - which is being fought by just Emmanuel Macron and Marine Le Pen - is being held on Sunday.

Want to know more about the French election? Joe Sommerlad has more:

When is the French presidential election and what are the polls saying?

23:23 , Zoe Tidman

That is all from us for tonight. Thank you for following.