Full interrogation video shown in Exford arson, murder trial: "I know I could have got everybody out."

Mar. 15—LOWVILLE — Complete audio and video footage of the state criminal investigators' interrogation of Shawn L. Exford occupied the Lewis County Courtroom during the sixth day of Exford's arson and murder trial for the Nov. 30, 2019, fire that killed two people.

New York State Police investigator for the major crime unit, Jacob C. Byron, was called to the stand by Lewis County Assistant District Attorney Caleb J. Petzoldt to be asked questions about a series of snippets from the video footage of his interrogation of Exford with investigator Timothy J. Dougherty on Dec. 1 and again on Dec. 12.

The same clips from Dec. 1 were included in the full audio and video of the interrogation, played at the beginning of Mr. Byron's cross examination by Exford's attorney, John W. Hallett.

The full version of the questioning began with an audio-only recording of the investigators arriving at Exford's home on Dec. 1.

Although there were various static-like sounds that made much of the recording difficult to understand, it was clear that Exford invited the investigators into his home and agreed to give them the clothes and footwear he was wearing on the night of the fire so they could test them for chemicals that may have caused the fire. They gave him an example of a gas leak as something that may have left gas residue on his clothes.

Exford also went with them willingly to the state police barracks at 7881 state Route 26 to answer questions.

Before getting in the troopers' vehicle to go to the barracks, Exford described Catherine A. Crego, who lived in the upstairs front apartment and was killed in the fire along with Seratina R. Kilbourne, as a "nice lady" who would always let him stay with her any time he called.

The recording switched from audio to full video with sound once Exford, Mr. Byron and Mr. Dougherty arrived in an interrogation room.

Exford was read his Miranda rights with an explanation by Mr. Dougherty that unlike on television cop shows, the reading of Miranda does not indicate someone is going to be arrested.

Indicating he understood his rights explained in the reading, Exford willingly answered the investigators' questions.

The investigators frequently told Exford they appreciated his help, at first insisting that they were "still at the early points of the investigations," and therefore unable to "do a full-blown investigation" until testing results came back from the fire site.

During Mr. Petzoldt's questioning, Mr. Byron confirmed that trying make someone they are questioning comfortable, earning some degree of trust, is part of their interrogation technique.

"We want them to realize that we're a person, too, to put them at ease," he said.

Exford's testimony largely matched that from witnesses who testified last week, with some exceptions, including that of Brian Mushtare about the level of inebriation of Ms. Crego and Mr. Mushtare; who was passed out, Ms. Crego or Ms. Kilbourne; and, settling a discrepancy between Mr. Mushtare and the state fire investigator, whether or not the stove was off at the time of the fire.

Exford told the investigators that Ms. Crego had fallen asleep and was drunk. He said Mr. Mushtare, who was also drinking all afternoon, was also drunk at the time of the fire and was in the living room with Ms. Crego when Exford left to go and get movies to watch in Mr. Mushtare's apartment, although Mr. Mushtare had been cooking at one point.

Exford remembered clearly turning off the stove before he left the apartment.

Testimony by Ms. Crego's granddaughter, Tristain McGrath, also differed from that of Exford in that she said she went with him to Sunoco to buy beer and CBD shots, and Exford said he went to do so with Ms. Kilbourne.

Throughout the recounting of the evening, Exford expressed his shock about how quickly the fire spread and frustration that Mr. Mushtare hadn't been able to help the two women out of the apartment.

He became very emotional, breaking down in tears, expressing guilt because he left and wasn't there to save everyone.

"I could have been up there. I would have picked her ass up and put her right out the window," Exford said. "I know I could have got everybody out. I'm a strong mo— fu—." Mr. Byron and Mr. Dougherty told him not to beat himself up and then switched tactics to tell him not to protect anyone else if he knew about something someone else had done.

Throughout the interrogation, Exford maintained he did not set the fire and that he didn't know who would want to do so.

He was asked these questions in multiple ways along with the events of the evening and his answers never changed in substance.

Investigators plied him with questions about who he thought might have had a problem with anyone in the apartment; if he thought a cigarette thrown off the second-floor stair landing could have gotten caught in one of the blankets hanging on a door and the wall of the downstairs apartment; if he thought a "one-pot" methamphetamine-making setup could have been hidden behind the blanket on the door being that the apartment was known as a place where people who manufactured the drug would spend time.

Exford said he couldn't think of anyone with a feud against any of the people in the apartment that night. He didn't think it was possible for a cigarette to make it to a blanket.

"That was my theory. Yeah," was Exford's response to the one-pot question.

The investigators showed him the security footage from across the street that showed him coming out the front door. They pointed out what they said was a flash before he could be seen walking out the door. At first, Exford was watching to see his interaction with the dog and the man walking it as he came out the door because he said he couldn't remember the man. He had only paid attention to the dog.

He was pressed about noticing if there was a fire or smoke in the hallway before he left. The investigators said that he must have because the light could already be seen before he came out, but he maintained he saw nothing. He said he came down the stairs and out the door, not noticing what was in the hallway. Investigators said he had looked back in before coming all the way out, but Exford said he didn't remember doing that or what had briefly caught his attention.

When the questions became more insistent he said, "I feel like it's on me," but the investigators insisted it wasn't.

"My mom said I should have had a lawyer, but I didn't know where this was headed. I didn't expect anything like this," he said of the questions that he said felt accusatory, "I didn't just ignore it (the fire) but I didn't notice anything, alright? I could have done something if I noticed."

Due to a number of technical delays, Mr. Hallett did not have time to finish his cross examination of Mr. Byron after the more than 90 minutes of video played.

The trial will continue this morning with that cross examination.