'We had the foundation of a fantastic third album': Peter Hook talks Joy Division, Ian Curtis, New Order

Sep. 8—Bay Area News Group

It's noon on a Thursday, yet Peter Hook is still lying in his bed in a hotel room in Toronto as he joins our Zoom video call.

He's also shirtless, providing an unobstructed look of an interesting tattoo on his arm.

"That's a manga character from when I was into comics," he explains. "I've got a few.

"I won't show you the rest — because I'm nude and I hardly know you."

Thankfully, there was no video evidence to back up that claim. Yet, for the next 30 minutes or so, I'd definitely get to know the bassist much better as he talked quite candidly about his seminal post-punk act Joy Division.

Sadly, the band was only around for three years, making its live debut (under the name Warsaw) in May 1977 and then calling it quits after vocalist Ian Curtis died by suicide on May 18, 1980, at the age of 23.

During that relatively brief time period, however, the quartet — Hook, Curtis, guitarist/keyboardist Bernard Sumner and drummer Stephen Morris — would forge such a mighty legacy with the release of two full-length masterpieces, 1979's "Unknown Pleasures" and 1980's "Closer."

Those are the two classic albums that the bassist is performing, back to back, on his latest tour leading Peter Hook & the Light.

Here's my interview with Hook, who joined Sumner and Morris after the demise of Joy Division to form the famed synth-pop act New Order in 1980. The latter broke up in 2007, but reunited in 2011 without the incredibly influential bassist. Hook has, however, revisited the New Order songbook during concerts with the Light.

Q: How does it feel to be playing shows again after such a long layoff due to COVID?

A: Well, we were lucky in England because we got the half of 2021. We managed to do a load of festivals in 2021, where everybody clicked back to normal instantly. Then we had to lock down in England again.

Literally, the first gig we did was five days after lockdown lifted the first time. And you would've thought that COVID never happened. Everybody went (expletive) berserk. They were all (drunk), running around like lunatics jumping on you — ahhhhhhhh! And, of course, COVID went up 150% or something like that because everybody just forgot it all. It was quite interesting.

Q: You're going full Joy Division this time around, offering up "Unknown Pleasures" and "Closer" for fans. What's it like performing those two classics — each with a different vibe — in the same concert?

A: There is a great contrast between the two. We've done it before. Strangely, we use to play "Closer" first. I don't know why that was now. But now we play it second. I am aware that the chronology is important in showing how Joy Division matured and also how Ian's words became more thoughtful and more storytelling, in a way, and certainly evoke a fantastic atmosphere.

Q: Few, if any, have done it better than Ian Curtis.

A: It's amazing to think that the (albums) were only a year apart. We were 19-20 when we wrote "Unknown Pleasures." And we were 20-21 when we did "Closer." It's absolutely incredible to think that you were so young and you certainly didn't know, shall we say, the maturity of your songwriting. It took (producer) Martin Hannett to do that. Martin Hannett recognized that we were idiots, but the songs we were writing were genius.

Q: Time has certainly proven the latter to be true. Both "Unknown Pleasures" and "Closer" are still deeply fascinating, but in different ways.

A: It's nice to do be able to do (the two albums) together. You can feel the mood change, because, whether you like it or not, Joy Division's story is very intertwined with Ian's story. And I think there is a sadness and a melancholy as you listen from "Unknown Pleasures" into "Closer" for what was and what could have been.

Q: And Joy Division fans have certainly spent ample time wondering about what could have been.

A: What struck me doing this (show) was that — considering we had "Ceremony," "In a Lonely Place" and "ICB," which became a New Order song — we had the foundation of a fantastic third album for Joy Division.

And, of course, the ultimate sadness is that we didn't get to do that.

Q: How much joy do you get from revisiting the Joy Division catalog?

A: I love Joy Division. It's as simple and as plain as that. I (expletive) love it. I use to brow beat the others (in New Order) about playing it and they never would. Bernard and Stephen were just never interested in playing Joy Division.

We played it twice through our whole career and Barney (Sumner) didn't like it. So, I thought, "Well, fair enough. They are not his vocal lines. They're not his words."

Q: No, they are Ian's — forever. But I'm so glad that I get to hear them when I go see Peter Hook and the Light.

A: All those times I used to sit there with Ian and Ian would say to me, "You wait until we get to South Africa. You wait until we get to Australia. You wait until we get to America. You wait until we get to South America" — ad infinitum.

He was so ambitious and so sure that when we got to all these places that the reaction would be amazing.

Every time I get somewhere, I always go, "This one is for you, mate." Mongolia? Tick. China? Tick. Russia? Tick.

There aren't many places left in the world where (the music of) Joy Division hasn't been. And I do always get the wonderful feeling — even if Barney and Steve aren't — that he is with me.

Q: I think a lot about what Ian might have accomplished with Joy Division had he not died so young.

A: It didn't take me long to realize that the group wasn't the most important thing that he missed out on. The thing that he missed out on was watching his daughter grow, watching his relationship with Annik (Honore) come to fruition — because they were obviously very deeply in love at that time. There were many things. He didn't even get to see his dog — which he adored — grow old.

All those things that I take for granted as an old man — those wonderful, wonderful moments — I think, realistically, they are the things that matter now, not some group that would probably fall out over publishing, as they all do, and all end up hating each other. There are a lot more important things in life that he missed out on.

Will Carpenter is the Wyoming Tribune Eagle's Arts and Entertainment/Features Reporter. He can be reached by email at wcarpenter@wyomingnews.com or by phone at 307-633-3135. Follow him on Twitter @will_carp_.