Mark Meadows knew marchers had guns, could invade Capitol, sought pardon: Jan. 6 testimony

ASHEVILLE - Explosive testimony from a former special assistant to Mark Meadows said the ex-White House chief of staff knew about the potential for the Capitol to be attacked Jan. 6 and that marchers were armed including with military-grade rifles.

Meadows aide Cassidy Hutchinson on June 28 told the House select Jan. 6 committee that her boss was warned there could be violence at the legislative complex after President Donald Trump's speech. Once the crowd was assembled, Meadows, a former Western North Carolina congressman who represented part of Asheville, was also told that some of those gathered had guns, such as AR-15s, though he showed little concern, Hutchinson said.

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Trump also knew about the weapons but said those who had brought weapons were "not here to hurt me," Hutchinson said during a public hearing of the committee originally scheduled not to meet again until July, but that hastily called a sixth session to present her new evidence.

Hutchinson was the sole witness for the session, which also featured video clips of prior undisclosed testimony she had given committee investigators. The 25-year-old was the first White House employee to testify in person and said she and then-Deputy Chief of Staff Tony Ornato went to talk to Meadows in his office the morning of Jan. 6 about serious concerns over the weapons.

Spears, knives, AR-15s

Ornato, now the assistant director of Secret Service training, listed bear spray, oversized sticks, flag poles, spears, knives, pistols, AR-15s and possibly other weapons, she said.

Meadows was sitting on his couch, looking at his phone, she said.

"I remember Mark distinctly not looking up from his phone," Hutchinson said in a prerecorded video played at the meeting.

"I said, 'Mark, do you hear him?' and then Mark chimed in, 'All right, anything else?'" still looking down at his phone.

Hutchinson said she and Ornato looked at each other. When he finally looked up, Meadows said, "'Have you talked to the president?' And Tony said, 'Yes, sir. He's aware, too.'"

Meadows then said, "'All right, good,'" according to Hutchinson.

Meadows spokesperson Ben Williamson did not respond to a June 28 message seeking comment.   

Elected in 2012 to the 11th District, Meadows represented WNC and part of Asheville until resigning in 2020 to work as Trump's top aide. During and after the last election, he frequently raised the prospect of voter fraud, casting doubt on Joe Biden's win.

But Meadows is now facing a State Bureau of Investigation probe into possible fraud after records showed him voting using the address of a Macon County mobile, though he never appeared to live there.

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Trump fought with his security official

Here are some of the other stunning revelations from Hutchinson's testimony about her former boss and the role he played in the deadly Capitol attack:

• Meadows asked for a pardon, one of a growing list of officials named as requesting the president protect them from potential prosecution.

• After Trump in his Jan. 6 rally speech told supporters he was going to the Capitol with them, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy contacted Hutchinson, confronting her and saying Trump must not come.

• Meadows told the president he would work to get him to the Capitol along with marchers after his Jan. 6 speech. When a security official told Trump he must instead go back to the White House, the president wrestled with the security official for the steering wheel and then grabbed at the official's throat.

• After the attack and Trump's reluctance to step in and refusal to condemn it, cabinet secretaries considered invoking the 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office, declaring him unfit. CIA Director Mike Pompeo briefed Meadows on the possibility.

• When told by White House counsel to the president Pat Cipollone that Meadows needed to get Trump to do something immediately to stop the Capitol invasion, Meadows responded, "He doesn't want to do anything, Pat." Meadows would not get up from his couch until Cipollone marched toward the Oval Office.

• Meadows wanted to go to a Jan. 5 "war room" meeting at a hotel with Rudy Giuliani, lawyer John Eastman and other Trump loyalists and main proponents of false claims that Joe Biden won the 2020 election through fraud. He decided not to go after Hutchinson told him she did not think it was appropriate as chief of staff, though he called in to a meeting, she said.

• When Cipollone highlighted the Capitol invaders' chants of "hang Mike Pence," saying the president needed to do more to defuse the situation and protect the vice president, Meadows responded that Trump thought Pence deserved it and that the insurrectionists were not doing anything wrong.

• Those close to Trump fell into three groups: those calling for swift action to stop the invasion, those who took a neutral stance and those who sought to deflect, blaming the events on left-wing groups. Meadows was among those calling for deflection, though eventually acted in a more neutral fashion, Hutchinson said.

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'Blood's going to be on your effing hands'

Around 2 p.m. Jan. 6, after Hutchinson said she saw on television that Trump supporters had been fighting with police and were close to the doors of the Capitol, she went back to her boss. She said she found him sitting on his couch looking at his phone, as he had been during the morning, "just kind of scrolling and typing."

"I said, 'Hey, are you watching TV, chief?' He was like, 'Yeah.' I said, 'The rioters are getting really close. Have you talked to the president?'"

But Meadows responded, no, saying Trump "wanted to be alone right now."

Hutchinson said she was getting frustrated and felt she was watching something akin to "a bad car accident about to happen."

"I remember thinking in that moment, Mark needs to snap out of this and I don't know how to snap him out of this, but he needs to care."

She asked him if he knew the whereabouts of Ohio Rep. Jim Jordan, a Trump supporter who had given a speech that day backing the president's election fraud claims. Hutchinson urged Meadows to contact him and check on his safety.

Meadows said something to the effect of, "All right, I'll give him a call."

It was less than two minutes later that Cipollone "barreled down the hall," asking her if Meadows was in his office and saying the Capitol had been breached. It was then that the White House attorney urged Meadows to contact the president and he declined.

Hutchinson recalled the conversation, saying Cipollone said something to the effect of "Mark, something needs to be done or people are going to die and the blood's going to be on your effing hands."

He told Meadows the situation was "out of control" and that he was going to talk to the president.

Meadows at that point stood up, gave both his phones to Hutchinson and walked with Cipollone. As he left, he told her, "let me know if Jim calls."

Consequences?

It is not clear what if any consequences Meadows might face. Though the House voted to hold him in contempt of Congress for refusing to testify before the select committee, the Department of Justice has not moved to charge him as it has former White House trade adviser Peter Navarro and Trump ally Steve Bannon, who did not cooperate.

But after the hearings' new evidence the department has taken additional steps, seizing the phone of Eastman and searching the home of ex-DOJ official Jeffrey Clark. Federal agents have also subpoenaed Georgia, Arizona and Michigan Trump campaign and Republican party officials who, like Eastman, worked to supplant their states' official electors for Biden in a plot to switch the Electoral College count in favor of Trump.

Joel Burgess has lived in WNC for more than 20 years, covering politics, government and other news. He's written award-winning stories on topics ranging from gerrymandering to police use of force. Got a tip? Contact Burgess at jburgess@citizentimes.com, 828-713-1095 or on Twitter @AVLreporter. Please help support this type of journalism with a subscription to the Citizen Times. 

This article originally appeared on Asheville Citizen Times: Jan. 6 hearing: Meadows sought pardon, knew about guns, attack warning