Joe Rogan, RFK Jr. don't get it: Vaccine science isn't up for debate

By the time my patient had reached out for treatment, it was too late.

Laying in her hospital bed, cancer that had originated in her breast had spread to her liver, her lungs and even her brain. She had known about her cancer for years but did not trust medical doctors for treatment. Instead, she relied on “natural” remedies – vitamins and supplements recommended by communities online – that she could have faith in over Big Pharma and the medical complex. They did not work.

I’ve been thinking about this now deceased woman lately, as I’ve been reading about Joe Rogan’s challenge for a scientist to debate a politician over the benefits of vaccines. The popular podcaster has invited Dr. Peter Hotez, a professor of virology and a preeminent vaccine expert, to argue against Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a known vaccine skeptic.

Like my misguided patient, many of Rogan’s listeners do not trust medical experts or the best scientific data available, and would rather believe a vaccine skeptic – or at least weigh their testimony equally.

Dr. Hotez is right to call out the misinformation on this widespread podcast, and he is right to not partake in the spectacle that would be this debate. You might think, why wouldn’t he just participate, shut down all the critics and prove his point – after all, if the scientific data is so strong, wouldn’t it easily persuade listeners over any point RFK Jr. could make?

Scientific facts aren't up for debate

Well therein lies the problem – the whole premise that scientific data needs to win over the masses to be true is flawed. Science is science, and objective data that can be reliably reproduced is true whether people believe it or not. Vaccines have been studied rigorously, and there is no reproducible data that it causes autism, as RFK Jr. believes.

What RFK Jr. does have is the power of the word. He is a skilled politician and orator who knows how to make an argument. Trained as a lawyer, debate is his bread and butter.

The studies he relies on to show vaccines are not safe, are not effective, or cause conditions such as autism are either flawed or downright fraudulent. In fact, the original study that had linked vaccines to autism is widely debunked. Its data was made up.

However, by participating in a debate, Dr. Hotez, a renowned scientist who was part of a research team nominated for a Nobel prize, would suddenly give this merchant of misinformation legitimacy. It would be a spectacle, and any chance to present real scientific evidence would be drowned out by the fake news peddled by RFK Jr.

It would serve no purpose other than feeding Rogan’s followers an hour of a skilled debater running circles around an “elitist” scientist, who would probably have trouble getting a word in.

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Trust in medical professionals is dangerously low

I am honestly surprised that we are still skeptical of the merits of vaccines, especially the COVID-19 vaccines.

A study using Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data estimates that almost a quarter million American deaths, between June 2021 and April 2022, could have been prevented if more people were vaccinated. To be exact: 234,000 could still be alive!

The benefits are clear.

Vaccines are safe: Vaccinating young kids is safe – and critical to saving lives of their loved ones

However, trust in American scientists, physicians and public health officials has continued to erode. To many, no longer are we seen as trustworthy figures but rather as conspirators with ulterior motives.

To a large extent, no one should believe any “expert” blindly, but when there are several high-quality studies, a preponderance of empirical evidence and a consensus among most of the scientific communities, then that should tip the scales toward belief over a random person on the internet with contradictory statements.

Maybe if some of this trust had been reestablished, my patient would have had her cancer treated earlier, many more Americans wouldn’t have an empty chair at the dinner table during the pandemic, and we wouldn’t have to sit through debates between experts and well-spoken quacks.

Dr. Thomas K. Lew is an assistant clinical professor of Medicine at the Stanford University School of Medicine and an attending physician of Hospital Medicine at Stanford Health Care Tri-Valley. All expressed opinions are his own. Follow him on Twitter @ThomasLewMD

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This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Rogan's RFK Jr., Hotez debate isn't worth having. Science is real