Judge Rules Mike Pence Must Testify on Conversations with Trump ahead of January 6
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Former vice president Mike Pence must testify to a grand jury about conversations he had with Donald Trump leading up to January 6, 2021, a judge ruled.
A source familiar with the sealed ruling also told CNN that Pence can still decline to answer questions related to his actions on January 6 itself. The vice president was serving in a legislative capacity as president of the Senate on that day. When Pence challenged the subpoena of Jack Smith last month, he attempted to exert legislative privilege based on the Constitution’s “speech or debate clause.” Legal experts have regarded Pence’s assertion, usually reserved for members of Congress, to be a novel legal theory.
Attorney General Merrick Garland appointed Smith in November to oversee the investigation into the alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election and Trump’s alleged mishandling of classified documents.
“I am going to fight the Biden DOJ subpoena for me to appear before the grand jury because I believe it’s unconstitutional and unprecedented,” Pence said at an event in February, as quoted in CNN.
The ruling comes as former president Donald Trump accrues loss after loss in his attempts to shield those around him from testifying on the separate grounds of executive privilege. Trump attempted to exert the privilege on Pence’s behalf. He also attempted to exert it on behalf of ex-advisors like Mark Meadows, John Ratcliffe, and Robert O’Brien. It came to light last week that they too would be forced to testify.
The novel legal route selected by Pence may have been chosen because executive privilege has limits that are often overcome in criminal proceedings, while protections from the Constitution’s speech or debate clause have remained mostly impenetrable.
The challenge has played out in secret in front of Judge James Boasberg, chief of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. Pence still has the ability to appeal.
The former vice president has stood by his decision not to challenge the certification of the vote on January 6 even as he fights the subpoena.
As time has gone on, Pence’s words for Trump’s behavior have become more and more critical.
“I had no right to overturn the election and his reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the Capitol that day, and I know that history will hold Donald Trump accountable,” Pence said earlier this month.
