What would Pence tell Trump on debate stage? How did Jan. 6 change him? Takeaways from interview

BRENTWOOD, N.H. − Former Vice President Mike Pence drew headlines in March when he said history would hold former President Donald Trump accountable for his “reckless words” that endangered the life of Pence and his family on Jan. 6, 2021, the day of the Capitol riots.

Pence made those comments at a gathering of Washington journalists and dignitaries. So would he be willing to say the same thing to Trump on a debate stage?

Pence told USA TODAY he wouldn’t hesitate, “if I feel it’s necessary to do that.”

But he expressed more interest in highlighting the differences he sees between himself and all the Republicans running for the 2024 presidential nomination.

“I think it's an opportunity to talk to the American people and lay out a contrast, lay out a choice between not only my former running mate, but others in the field,” he said, “both with regard to my experience, positions that people have taken on issues that not only matter to me, but I think are at the very heart of the Republican Party for the last 50 years.”

Pence hasn’t yet qualified for the first GOP debate, scheduled for Aug. 23. He’s still seeking the 40,000 unique contributions he needs from supporters across the country, even as less nationally known candidates have said they’ve met the party’s participation requirements.

As Pence made his case to New Hampshire voters during a three-day campaign swing last week, he spoke to USA TODAY about why he’s running, whether Jan. 6, 2021, changed him and if other candidates should have to say what they would’ve done in his place.

Here are the takeaways from that discussion:

Pence's debate approach

Pence has said he debated Trump plenty in private during their administration and looks forward to debating him publicly. But when asked to name something he’s hoping to say to Trump on the debate stage, Pence said: “I approach debates differently than that.”

The former vice president, Indiana governor and U.S. House member said he wants to lay out his experience as well as contrast his positions on abortion restrictions, foreign policy and Social Security and Medicare. He has presented himself as the toughest candidate on abortion, the strongest supporter of Ukraine and the biggest leader on addressing the mountain of federal debt.

“I look forward to a vigorous debate on those issues,” he said.

No criticism of the Trump-Pence administration

Although Pence has accused Trump of straying from the conservative principles he thought they shared, he’s not taking issue with any of their administration’s record.

“We had a great working relationship for four years,” Pence said. “Some people on that stage, they’re going to be taking the opportunity to be critical of the record of the Trump-Pence administration. Not me. I’m incredibly proud of what we accomplished for the American people. I just think different times call for different leadership.”

A `solutions conservative'

Pence, who is calling himself a “solutions conservative,” said he will begin this week laying out the policies he would enact if elected. The first position papers will address inflation and jobs. Others will tackle energy policy, entitlement programs, immigration, national security, parental rights and education, free speech and religious liberty, and corruption.

Asked by a voter at a campaign event in Hudson, New Hampshire., what he would do during his first three weeks as president, Pence said he would have a “big stack of executive orders” that would start with “undoing everything Joe Biden has done by executive order.” Jobs No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3, he said, would be to get the economy moving and to turn off the “gusher” of federal spending.

Trump tone out; civility in

Pence said he will create the conditions for solving the big issues facing the nation by restoring civility in public life.

“And I'm always humbled when people associate us with that,” he said. “It's always been our aspiration to treat others the way we want to be treated, to show that you can take a strong stance on your principles but be respectful of differing viewpoints.”

That’s 180 degrees from the frequent tone of Trump’s discourse. But asked if he shares any responsibility for the coarseness of the last administration by having teamed up with Trump, Pence didn’t express any regret.

He said he readily joined the ticket in 2016 because of Trump’s policies and remains proud of what they accomplished.

“But I always understood it was his presidency, that he would carry himself the way that he was determined to carry himself,” Pence said. “I always tried to strike my own path, even while supporting and being loyal to the president every day, until my oath to the Constitution required me to do otherwise.”

Most poignant Jan. 6 moment

Police officers, who had been accosted by riotous mobs, streamed through the Senate’s underground loading dock where Pence was sheltered on Jan. 6. The echoing sounds of the crowds as Pence and his family were escorted to safety. Those are some of the images of that day Pence said he will never forget.

But the most poignant moment for him was after the Capitol was secured, when he returned to the Senate chamber to finish counting the Electoral College votes, and told lawmakers, “Let’s get back to work.”

“In the otherwise quiet environs of the United States Senate, they began to applaud and then they all stood, not for me," he said. "I thought they were standing and applauding the resilience of our institutions.”

`Adversity reveals character'

Pence told USA TODAY he doesn’t know if Jan. 6 changed him.

“But I think it may have introduced a part of me to the American people that they didn't know was there,” he said. “I’m somebody that believes that adversity reveals character. And I think in that day, the American people saw I'm going to put my oath to the Constitution, I'm going to put the promises I made to them, first and foremost, whatever it means to me. The Bible verse Psalm 15 that has lived with me ever since says, `He keeps his oath, even when it hurts.’”

The day did change how many people thought about Pence. But not all for the better. While many praised his courage, some Trump supporters think he betrayed the president, even though he did not have the legal authority to reject the Electoral College votes for President Joe Biden. That remains a significant hurdle for Pence as he tries to win the nomination.

Asked if other GOP candidates not named Trump should have to say what they would’ve done in Pence’s place, he said he’ll leave that to the media.

“But I'll always believe that by God's grace, we did our duty on Jan. 6,” he said.

Would a Trump victory be God's will?

Pence wrote in his memoir that what many people didn’t understand about his partnership with Trump was his respect for the will of the American people and his belief that Providence put Trump in the White House.

But he’s also said Trump’s actions on Jan. 6 have disqualified him from serving again. So, if Trump wins in 2024, will Pence have difficulty seeing that as God’s will?

“Well, what I would say to you is, I truly do believe, as the Bible says, God governs in the affairs of men. And he raises up who he will raise up and casts down who he will cast down,” Pence said. “I don't think anybody could have defeated Hillary Clinton in 2016 other than Donald Trump. But I believe the American people are best equipped to make the decision who should be the next president of the United States. And we're gonna work our hearts out.”

This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Pence talks debating Trump, restoring civility, Jan. 6, 2024 race