Q&A with Marietta High School's new principal
Jul. 23—MARIETTA — In a wide-ranging interview this week, the MDJ sat down with Dr. Eric Holland, the new principal of Marietta High School, to discuss teacher morale, student discipline and other education topics.
Holland, an educator with 23 years of experience, most recently served as principal of Rome High School in northwest Georgia.
The following Q&A has been edited for length and clarity.
MDJ: Why did you want to come to Marietta High?
Dr. Eric Holland: Many reasons. When my son went to KSU, I was actually coming to Marietta to take care of some of those kids' needs that I talked about. And I know a guy by the name of Keith, and I know him well. I worked with Dr. (Brittney) Wilson, she was our assistant superintendent when I came to Rome. She's over innovative programs here at Marietta. (Wilson has married and is now Brittney Bridges).
So I just started to really look at the situation. My son is at KSU, my goddaughter's here. And I'm sitting there saying to myself, well Jesus, this is Marietta. I need to really think, see if this is something that I can be fortunate, blessed enough to lead — 2,700 students and 250 adults and making magic happen for children ... (I) called my spiritual fathers, we had a conversation, they said 'What's in your heart?' Because I have such a powerful relationship with the people in Rome. And I gave them everything I had, I knew I had to consider their feelings. I had teachers that stayed, and loved the relationship I've built with them, so I had to take all of those things into consideration.
But at the same time, I saw it as another opportunity to come in and, just like I did at all the other places, just build those authentic relationships with the students and the staff ... Make magic happen for 2,700 students. And hopefully, when they close their eyes at night, they got a dream. When they wake up, and they see the 250 people that stand before them, it's a responsibility for the adult to make sure that these kids get what they get.
And plus, Marietta has the IB program, so it was like something I'd never seen before, I dreamed about. I was like, oh, wow, they got this, they got the college advisers, it's a city school, very diverse, I think 39 different countries represent Marietta High School. So I'm like, OK, this is something that I can learn, but it's also something I can grow, and I can be a part of it. And I just got excited about it, applied for the job. ...
Q: School safety is on people's minds. Some districts, like Cobb, have moved toward allowing non-police armed security in schools for safety. Do you think that's a good idea for Marietta High?
A: That's a really good question. I need a little bit more details about why Cobb made that decision, I'm not really sure why that would be. I know at Marietta High School, just being there the two days I've been there, we have ... reviewed the safety plan to make some adjustments ... to make sure our kids are safe. Even just to make sure the buzz-in and buzz-out system is good, that we got ... radios, that we strategically place our four (student resource officers), we got four hall monitors. Looking at our plan, our plan is very solid and sufficient. ....
Q: The Georgia school board last year passed a resolution against critical race theory. The Cobb school board banned critical race theory. The legislature has passed a law banning the teaching of what they call divisive concepts, which are certain beliefs about race. Given all that, what's your advice to teachers to avoid getting tangled up in those concerns when they're teaching history, or other subjects that touch on race?
A: That's a really good question. I just had this conversation last night with some of my friends. It's a very sensitive subject to so many people, it's so many different opinions about that. I say this to all teachers: teach the children, educate the whole child, and be mindful of the culture and climate in which you're teaching. Know the clientele in your room.
Obviously if it's in the standard, you got to teach it. But at the same time, I try not to get into any of the notions of, 'this is important, this is not important, teach this, don't teach that,' ...
And I simply go back to what I told you guys in the beginning, it's just understanding what children need, what they want to learn, and making sure we find a way for them to have access to the information.
...
(Jen Brock, spokesperson for Marietta City Schools, chimed in here to point out that state laws such as divisive concepts and the Parents' Bill of Rights are being implemented through district policy, and that schools have limited discretion.)
Q: How do you plan to navigate the efforts at the local and state level to restrict reading materials, such as those that touch on themes about gender and sexuality? For example, if a parent learns one of your teachers is teaching a book, and the parent thinks the book is inappropriate while the teacher thinks it is appropriate. How would you handle a situation like that?
A: ... Just follow whatever procedures that the district has in place. That's typically what I did before I got here, we already had a plan in place. And we just followed the plan.
(Brock again pointed out that such disputes are governed by the Parents' Bill of Rights, which lays out a complaint process. All curriculum for every class has to be posted before school starts so parents have all the information about what their child is learning, and they have the opportunity to request an alternative assignment.)
Q: Education seems to be more political these days, with both political parties looking to score points. What's the best way to tamp down on all that noise, so that students can get what they're meant to get at school, which is the skills, the actual education, to be productive citizens?
A: We need to refocus on the children. ... I think over time, education is turning into something other than educating children. And for me, it's always been about keeping my eyes on the kids, making sure that my kid, your kid, everybody's kid got what they need to be successful. And you will find, working with me, that that's always going to be the goal for me.
You listen to the politics of it all, but you don't let it stop you from doing what's best for children. Have a laser sharp focus on the needs of children every day, each day, and make sure that there is a seamless process for children to be successful. I know, as a building-level leader at Marietta High School, that the focus will be on teaching and learning, on making sure that what we're doing is in the best interest of all kids.
Q: One of the complaints we've heard from parents is reports of increased student fighting at Marietta High School. We had Alisha Thomas Searcy, who's the Democratic nominee for state school superintendent, come by recently, and she said she hears it's a problem all across the state, with many students having forgotten the norms of how to operate in a public school system during the pandemic. So, what's the solution to that, and what's your philosophy when it comes to student discipline?
A: The word social-emotional wellness should be for everybody at this point. The pandemic impacted everybody. Having a son (whose) sweet 16 birthday party was in the house, I've seen the impact on my own children. ... I'm a trust-based, relational, interventionist-type of person. I think that kids were kind of put back into school, and they hadn't been in school for a while. And it created a little bit of tension, a little bit of excitement. I think that we needed to, I know for me last year, was to get back to teaching those behavior expectations ... A little bit at a time, we've done little 10-minute lessons, meeting with kids, even with teachers, just to try to get them back to some type of structure, some type of routine, that will keep them on a good track so there was not all this fighting going on.
But I think that the pandemic created some trauma for everybody to deal with. Kids just don't naturally wake up and fight. Something caused them to want to fight. And that's something I always ask, 'Hey, what caused you to want to fight this morning?' You'll find out rather quickly it wasn't the person they were fighting, it was the fact that the dad had punched the mom in the face last week, or 'I didn't eat anything,' 'I'm frustrated,' 'I didn't get shoes,' there's something else that caused that.
And what we would do and when I talked about our team today is, again, pour into children, build authentic relationships, be visible, be accessible and available, and have conversations to make connections. And once you do that, I can tell you right now, Marietta High School, day one, will be an assembly with the principal and the students. And it'd be one of those assemblies where it's just me and them, I don't have anybody else in the room. And I'll have a real conversation with them about how they should behave, and how we will behave, and what we can do when there's an issue, how you prevent that. So having those preventative actions in place, having an expectation of, this is not the place that we behave like that. And make sure that there's an example of how you should behave.
One thing I learned from my own child is, don't assume anything. So, teach everything. And I'll make sure those behavior expectations are being taught, and we'll have a plan in place to make sure that a child has advocacy, somebody that can advocate for them when they do have a need and they need someone to talk to.
We started that at Rome High School two or three years ago ... a child advocacy program. Basically, giving that kid a positive person in the building that they can go and talk to, to help them overcome whatever it is they're going through before they go over there and punch somebody or get in a fight. ...
Q: I would think that if you're a teacher, you're going to be very much interested in how you approach it too.
A: ...I told the staff, people I've met with, even in the interview, from 2017 to 2022, I think the most important word I could tell anybody was growth. ... We always talk about students, students, students ... nobody talks about staff, staff, staff ... So over the years, I have grown to make sure we are a student-centered school, but we are staff-supported.
So we got to support our staff. How do you do that? ... You provide visible support. It's no different than people speeding along this road over here. If you want to stop the speeding, put a police car there, people do their best driving. I told our admin team this morning, if we're not visibly present, problems are going to be present. We got to be accessible and available to teachers.
So we shuffle some duties around to make sure that, if I'm responsible for these 25 teachers, that they know there's support there. And we got the 48-hour rule, so no administrator can go two days without checking on the teachers. So we got constant checkpoints in place. I read a book by Alexandra Elle called "After the Rain," and it talks about self-care is the best care. I can't take care of my wife, my two boys, my 24 god kids, if I'm not taking care of myself. The teachers can't take care of the students if we don't take care of the teachers.
So my goal, my mindset, would be to make sure that the teachers are supported. Make sure they know that there's a principal in place that's going to be there with them. And I handle all of the major issues at every school I work at. If it's a fight, I deal with those. And you'll learn rather quickly when the kid's got to sit with the principal and talk about their behavior to the same one who gave the assembly, there's a little bit of different respect there. And there's a little bit different adjustment to your behavior. ...
Q: One of the other reports we've heard is that there were faculty that were demoralized at Marietta High. So how do you solve that challenge? For example, the number of certified staff at MHS last year was 197, there were 36 departures. That's 18% teacher turnover.
A: You have to support them. You have to love them, you have to listen to them, obviously you got to lead. And one of the things that I did, and that I'm very proud of, is putting the staff back into the equation.
So I was meeting with my secretary Monday. And one of the things I do is a walk and talk. So I think it's very important ... let's say it's the Math Department, I do a walk and talk with them, just go into a room and just talk. 'Hey, what's going on? How's it going?' And once I build those authentic relationships, it's just like my wife, she can look at me and she'll say, 'Babe, what's wrong with you today, you're not your normal self.' ... I will build that relationship with teachers where I say, 'I see there's something bothering you, we're going to get you taken care of.' People want to know three things about their leader. No. 1, do you care about them? No. 2, can you help them? And No. 3, what else can you give them so they can be successful? They want to know you're competent, they want to know you're caring, they want to know you're compassionate about them. And you have to be willing to show that.
If I was at a presentation, actually, I'd be moving around, touching you on the shoulder. Because there's so much power in the human touch. If my kid was misbehaving in church on Sunday, I would just stand behind, I put my hand on his shoulder. He better get under control. But there's power in the human touch.
... My mom called me last week, she said, 'Hey, don't tell me you love me no more, you haven't been home in four months, you got to come see me.' I can't tell the teacher that I love them if they don't see me. That's why you got to get in there, talk with them. ... And they will know, quickly, that the guy that's in the top of the office is the guy that's going to love me and be there for me. ...
Q: How can schools help students who fell behind during the pandemic due to learning loss? How can the schools help them catch up?
A: You start from where you are today. You can't resurrect time. I know learning loss sounds good in theory, but is it the best thing in practice? Because what happens if you try to back up two years, then you're not getting caught up for the next. You have to start kids where they are and move the needle from there.
... I had a kid last year that was an 11th grader, he was reading on a fourth grade level. And it was like ... no, we need to move him to what I call a functional reading level. He wants to be a truck driver, he wants to work for this company, he needs to be able to read the application, manage the bill, do a bank account. So let's get him from a fourth grade level to about a fifth or sixth grade level before he graduates.
But there's no way I can go resurrect nine years of learning that he's lost. And what happens is you spend so much time trying to make up for something you can't make up for, that you stay further behind. So you have to start kids where they are and move the needle from there.
You know, we did all of the programs for learning loss, the after school program, the Saturday program and virtual program, put all those things in place. And we got very, very little bang for our buck. When we start to focus on exactly where the kids are as of today, we were able to move the needle. Because they didn't feel pressure to try to recover. ... And that's what I do today, I figure out where that kid is, let's come up with a functional goal to move the kid to, where he can have a functional education. Really, it's different for everybody.
Q: The graduation rate at Marietta High has gone up several years in a row, reaching 86.7% in 2021. So what's your goal for that metric? How do you continue that positive trend?
A: Again, you go back to the subgroups and identify the needs of children. What is it? I go back to my mother. She dropped out of school because she had to choose labor over learning, she had to go work.
Some of these kids have to choose ... the world I come from, our Hispanic kids, they have to work. And they'll say, 'Hey Doc, I'm able to make more money landscaping than I would with that sheet of paper.' They don't see any value to it. My job is to try to get them to see value in the sheet of paper with their name on it, make it make sense. Why do that for this many years when you can actually own the company? And you can go back and get your business license. Try to make it make sense.
So, I'm not a guy that chases numbers. Those numbers sound good, I guess. I've been at a school the last five years that was similar to Marietta, we've been in the 90s every year. But we don't talk about the numbers, we talk about the needs of every subgroup. And whatever the needs are, let's make sure we are meeting the needs of the kids. If we meet the needs, we'll be 90% or higher next year. So my plan is always to have a needs assessment sheet for students. ... We will continue to assess the needs of children. And we will continue to have a growing graduation rate.
Q: Do you have a sense yet for what you think may be the biggest challenges Marietta High School faces?
A: You just hit it on the head. The state superintendent did a teacher burnout study. And any principal, particularly at the high school level, is in a very tough situation. The word accountability in 2022 is extremely difficult to balance when it comes to holding your staff accountable for student success. And I get it, you know, over time, I'm such a pusher, most principals, because they got to meet needs, they push people out of the door. And it's extremely difficult to know how fast and how hard to push when you know that the kids need this. But at the same time, your staff are saying, 'You're pushing too hard.' And then when you try to hold staff accountable, I constantly remind them, accountability is what I do for you, not what I do to you. You have to get that mindset changed.
So coming in here, looking at what the numbers are on this listening tour, that seems to be a common theme. Teacher burnout or teacher retention at Marietta High School, the fights.
So being able to build that camaraderie with the teachers, having team-building activities that let them understand who I am. Like, this interview is powerful to me because when I leave here, you will have a good understanding of who Eric is, and not Dr. Holland. It's going to be vital that those adults at Marietta High School know who Eric is, as a person. Know how he thinks and makes decisions. And then on the flip side of it, Eric's got to know them, and what it is that they are looking for so they can be effective in their job. And it takes a little bit of time.
... And I show them that 'I care about you, I've done your job, I know the difficulties of your job. I went back to school in the pandemic at the University of Georgia. I am a lifelong educator. I can teach any content. I can walk in your class and I can inspect ... I can do your stuff. But that's not what you need me to do. What you need me to do is provide a safe, orderly, supporting, loving environment for you to be successful.'
I handled all major discipline referrals at Rome High School. I will handle all major discipline referrals at Marietta, because if it's important to the teacher, if it's a fight or drugs, whatever they may be, it needs to be dealt with by the person that makes the call in the building. And I think when teachers see that I'm involved with their safety, that I'm going to be the one that somebody has to deal with if something happens, that I will put my life on the line for them and these kids every single day, won't think twice about it, they will feel at ease.
Safety's first, support is second. We'll keep them safe, we'll support them all. And that's my mindset coming in, let's support the teachers, pay attention to the people that's doing the work.
I watched my mother work in this factory for 30 years. The guy never paid attention to her, he paid attention to the machine. He wanted to know what they could do to make this machine run better, while they worked my mom till she almost died. Now she's disabled. You can't do that to teachers. You can't pay attention to everything else and forget about the people that are actually doing the work. Pay attention to the teachers. Watch their body language, it's 55% of communication, they'll tell you when something's wrong. And having that culture and climate of trust and understanding, then you go in and make sure that they're supported.
... The first day of school, we're going to have everybody fired up, it's going to be on at Marietta High School. And I'm excited about that. I think my energy is enough for everybody in the room. So I give it to everybody. And we'll be just fine. ...
Q: What have we not asked you that you want the community to know?
A: That I am a community guy. I do community service, my goal every year is to do at least 100 hours of community service. I'm a member of a fraternity, we actually meet here and at Kennesaw State the third Friday of each month.
So I'm a part of the GENTS (Guide, Empower Nurture, Transform, Strengthen youth) program. So we mentor kids, we provide scholarships throughout. So they will see me in the community, for sure.
I love speaking obligations. Obviously I speak and talk all day. I can do this all day. Respectfully, I stay away from ... I try to avoid anything that'll create division at this point. I think it's very important that people know that I'm not a divisive guy. I don't make a lot of opinions about political stuff, but I listen to them, because I know they're important. But I make 100% of decisions about what's in the best interest of students and staff. And I try to do that with research, through a thought process or decision-making model, that's important.
I love children. I think that my story, my education story, my life itself would say that.
I'm a community guy. I'm a guy that's got four pastors, because I work with all four churches. If that church has a need, and I can come in and mentor some of those kids that need a guy that kind of got a story that can get them going, I do that. I'm not afraid to tell people my story.
1996, the first time I met my dad, he did two things for me that helped shape my life. No. 1, he told me 'You don't need a personal experience to gain wisdom.' And then he handed me a folder with 40 documents in it, he had 40 charges.
He said, 'Before you do anything stupid, just look at these. I want you to share this with your kids, that your kids share with their kid, and this is the best thing your dad can give to you.' And my brother never served any time, I never served any time. Obviously, I hope my kids don't, because I still got those charges in a folder.
And it happened in 1996. At that time, I was growing up. Like I told my son eating lunch with him today, 'you're growing up.' And sometimes you think that can't nobody teach you nothing. I'm 45 and I learn something every day. I have a ton of mentors. I'm a 90-10 guy. That means I believe that your mentor is someone that's poured things into you. So it's very important, people that guide me ... that I stay connected to those people.
And then I truly believe that a counselor is someone that pull things out of me. If I got a very effective mentor, there's less need for a counselor. I told my wife that when we got married, instead of having a marriage counselor, we had a marriage mentor, a couple that had been married for 40 years. They poured into us, they'd been married for 40 years. And we still did the 10% small little counseling thing, where people just pulled out the minor stuff. So I always believe in having a very effective mentor. ....
And I'm a guy that's going to bring it every day. In a respectful way, I love what I do. And I love how I do it. I love when I do it. But I'm also the guy that learns something every single day. So when I come in, and I sit, I present, but somebody is presenting, I have a notepad in my pocket ... And I take notes, and I write notes down. And then when I go home, I process everything that somebody said that I didn't know, and you gotta fact check them, or I Google it, try to find information, just to make sure I'm learning.
And that's what you can tell the community, he loves children, he loves teachers, and he loves the profession.
