Q&A: Dean Phillips is Biden's new Democratic challenger. Does he really think he can win?

Third-term Minnesota Rep. Dean Phillips recently announced that he will be challenging President Biden for the 2024 Democratic presidential nomination — a quest that at least one political strategist has described as "delusional," echoing widespread sentiment within the party.

But citing Biden’s low approval rating and shaky head-to-head numbers against former President Donald Trump, Phillips, 54, has insisted that Democratic primary voters deserve a conversation about who represents their best chance of keeping the White House.

Yahoo News sat down with the former liquor and gelato CEO in Los Angeles to discuss why he believes Biden has "become unelectable" — and why, after months of urging other Democrats to enter the race, he finally made the leap himself.

Am I right to say you are running against Biden because you don’t think he can beat Donald Trump in 2024?

I believe he's become unelectable, which is not a perspective on his principles or his achievements or my respect for him. It's simply a reflection of the numbers. [If Biden is the nominee], Donald Trump is almost certain to return to the White House. We're walking right into 2016. The only difference is we know it.

Why do you think Biden can't beat Trump?

Americans are saying loud and clear that they don't want either of these two candidates. Anybody who reads these polls and watches these focus groups and talks to voters every day like I do and somehow feels differently, I welcome that conversation. But I think it's delusional.

Let's talk about the polls. One year before the election, they suggest the race between Biden and Trump is essentially tied. One year before the 2012 election, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama were essentially tied as well. Yet Obama won reelection by 4 points. Why is Biden different?

I think it's an entirely different atmosphere now with entirely different candidates. But that's neither here nor there. If I didn't activate now, there would be no other viable candidate.

Yes, things can change. But what if these numbers continue — and I happen to believe they will — or they get worse? Nothing against [the other Democratic primary candidate] Marianne Williamson — I respect her courage — but I intend to be on the ballot in 45 states. In the overwhelming majority of those states right now, it will be Joe Biden and me.

And I am convinced that by May or June of next year, should I be able to introduce myself to the country, that I will be beating Donald Trump in the polls. And I expect that the Biden-Harris ticket will continue to be behind Trump in the polls.

But what about the counterargument? A pro-Biden Democrat might say, "The economy is improving. Right now, people are not paying a lot of attention to politics. They know Biden is old, and they know some prices are still high, but they're not really hearing or seeing much else. Once the campaign really starts, they'll be reminded of why they chose Biden in 2020, and they'll also be reminded of why they rejected Trump." Why is that wrong?

Democrats feel that it's poor strategy to have an alternative, competent, current member of Congress vying for the nomination? Why should we not choose the candidate who can ultimately defeat Trump?

And by the way, if that candidate is Joe Biden next June — if his numbers rise above Trump's and it looks like he can succeed, and mine have not — I'd be the first to say, "Let's do it. Let's get on the Biden train."

But conversely, if I'm positioned above Trump and they are underwater, I would ask that they do the same thing. I would like to see Democrats focus on winning. And a few weeks from now, it becomes almost impossible to get on enough ballots to win the nomination.

That's the 'why now'?"

Yes. I spent the last three years promoting the Biden administration, supporting their policies, supporting the man. Had he been better positioned, I would never have done this in a million years. It makes no sense otherwise.

But when they do the head-to-head polls in the battleground states, Trump beats Biden 48% to 44% — and a generic Democrat beats Trump 48% to 40%. I've never aspired to be generic, but in many ways I fit that bill. I'm a prepared, competent, experienced, able Democrat who flipped a district that had been in Republican hands for 60 years. I can be the guy who'd win by 12.

You're at 4% in the polls right now. Why should we believe Biden's numbers one year out, but not yours?

He has a 50-year head start. I've been at this for one month. I was thrilled to be at 4% nationally. I was thrilled to be at 15% in that first New Hampshire poll.

But why are your numbers going to change and not his? What's your path to the nomination?

New Hampshire will be a big part of it. But I don't care about national numbers compared to Biden in the Democratic primary. I don't care about state polls right now. I care about a singular poll: Who can beat Donald Trump?

It's ultimately about getting to May, June of next year — when I do have name recognition — and looking at those head-to-head matchups. Gavin Newsom against Donald Trump. Dean Phillips against Donald Trump. Joe Biden against Donald Trump. Kamala Harris against Donald Trump. Gretchen Whitmer — you name it. And I would just say to Democrats [at that point], whoever is best positioned to beat the man should be the nominee.

You would still welcome other candidates into the race? You would say, right now, 'Gavin Newsom, if you want to run in 2024…'

Absolutely. Competition is good. Why do this tap dance around the world? If you aspire to be the leader of the free world but are hesitant to enter the basic democratic competition to do so, I'm confounded. Anybody who can beat [Trump] should enter this [primary].

It sounds like you see your candidacy as an insurance policy — a way to have someone else running who's viable, just in case.

As evidenced by the Republicans. They now have a very interesting wide array of candidates from which to pick — and time, depending on what happens to the frontrunner.

One big concern that Americans always mention is Biden's age. He'd be 86 at the end of his second term. Do you share that concern?

The president can't do anything about that. There's no marketing, there's no repositioning, there's no legislation that changes that reality … should these numbers continue, should they get worse or — worst case — should something happen to him.

I do not intend to make [Biden's] age a focus of my campaign. But when I see Biden and Trump roughly tied with young people in this country, that is a staggering, staggering indication of where people are.

Some people have said that age is your only issue, whether you want to talk about it or not.

Bullshit. I do not know in what world Biden could be perceived more weakly than he is right now. Maybe I should be honored by the fact that people think I somehow am in a position to call all this attention [to Biden’s age]. It's funny because the same people also say, '[Phillips] is only at 4% in the polls right now. Nobody knows who he is.'

Have you been surprised by how Democrats have reacted to your candidacy?

No. I'm disappointed. It's disappointing to me that other candidates better known than I refused to meet the moment when they had the chance.

Most of the time when someone challenges their party's incumbent president, it's because of serious policy differences. Buchanan and Reagan ran from the right; Kennedy and McCarthy ran from the left. Do you have any serious policy differences with Biden?

My differences are not antagonistic ones. They're generational ones. Job one, day one has got to be a massive effort to reduce prices for Americans. I do not think the president favors a national health insurance program. It's time to get it done.

Cannabis is huge. The fact that the federal law is incongruent with the increasing majority of the states is abhorrent and absurd. Same with psilocybin.

The border issue — it is a crisis. I would change the asylum laws, with the blessing of Congress.

Crime and chaos in cities is another crisis. We spend a trillion dollars on national defense. Why are we not implementing strategies to keep people safe in our own communities?

Social security: We should have a pool into which people who've been successful — economically secure retirees — can contribute their benefits, which will then be redistributed to the lowest, say, 10% of beneficiaries. It's a government-sponsored form of philanthropy.

Do you think you'd be a better president than Biden?

I do. He brings an extraordinary amount of experience in the public sector — exclusively in the public sector — and I honor that. But what I bring is an entirely different vision, management style, ethos.

Where has Biden fallen short? What has he done wrong?

It's not about 'wrong.' It's about what hasn't been done. Where is the restoration of 'the soul of America' that he promised? The necessity for repair is more profound and the crisis of division is more dangerous by the day.

But how do you change that? Supporters would argue that — within our very polarized system — Biden has reached out to the other side as much as a president can.

Very simple. I would be the first president, maybe perhaps since Abraham Lincoln, who would have a team of rivals surrounding me. I'd have a bipartisan cabinet. I'm announcing that right now.

I would also have a youth cabinet representing all 50 states — every potential race, religion, geography and political perspective.

I'm already the second-most bipartisan member of the U.S. House, Senate and all governors, according to the Common Ground Committee. Out of 585 people, I’m No. 2. And yet I'm a progressive.

You seemed not to want to run initially. You wanted someone else to do it.

Yeah.

Why?

I recognized that without name recognition, without national stature, without a national organization, the system is not designed to allow for competition. And that's why I called on others to do it.

Absent them, I recognized that I could never look back on my decision and be OK with it if I didn't try. I knew I was torpedoing my career. I knew I could probably never return to Congress. And I frankly wish we had more people in Washington who would torpedo their careers in favor of principle, instead of torpedoing the country.

This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.