Ron DeSantis wants to ax an agency that investigated Hunter Biden

WASHINGTON — Last week, a House committee released IRS whistleblower testimony accusing the Justice Department of interfering in the federal tax-collection unit's investigation of President Joe Biden's son Hunter, whom Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis believes was given a "sweetheart deal."

Yet this week, DeSantis said he would abolish the agency that undertook the investigation of Hunter Biden if he wins the presidency.

DeSantis, running second in national polls for the 2024 GOP presidential nomination, also said he would eliminate the Energy and Education Departments, which date to Jimmy Carter's administration, and the Commerce Department, which dates to Teddy Roosevelt.

"We would do Education, we would do Commerce, we’d do Energy, and we would do IRS," DeSantis told Fox News host Martha McCallum. In the next breath, he acknowledged the most glaring obstacle to fulfilling those promises: He would need Congress to comply.

DeSantis did not elaborate on his plans, and a spokesman for his campaign did not respond to a request for comment on whether, as president, DeSantis would try to move programs to other departments or whether giving the ax to the agency at the center of the probe into Hunter Biden's finances might encourage the powerful to evade taxes.

"The timing is odd," a Republican strategist who is not aligned with any of the presidential campaigns said, noting that the IRS whistleblowers are going to be in the spotlight in the coming weeks.

"As House Republicans continue to work with whistleblowers, the IRS has already gotten a plea deal from Hunter Biden, and the idea that we should let the political elite off scot-free for crimes is not something that is going to play well with the Republican base," the strategist said.

DeSantis may have left himself open to criticism by not putting more flesh on the bone of his proposal at a time when he is just starting to roll out his policies on the campaign trail.

"DeSantis doesn't actually have any detailed plans," said Steven Cheung, a spokesman for former President Donald Trump, who has a wide lead in national polls for the GOP nomination.

"Everything that comes out of his mouth is just an incomprehensible word salad with no real details," Cheung said. "On the other hand, President Trump has released the most bold, detailed, and transparent policy plan — Agenda47 — that lays out exactly what a second Trump term will look like."

The battle highlights a tension point as DeSantis tries to maneuver to Trump's political right on a host of issues. What's popular with conservative primary voters is not always helpful to the party's nominee in the general election.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, a Trump ally who sought to eliminate the three departments in 1995, declined to comment on the specifics of DeSantis' proposal. But he called for a "de-bureaucratization" of the federal government.

"I think it’s unavoidable that we’re going to have a very deep and dramatic shake-up of the system," Gingrich said in a brief telephone interview with NBC News. He pointed to the example of Republican Gov. Kim Reynolds of Iowa, who signed a law cutting the number of Cabinet-level state agencies from 37 to 16, as a model to follow on the federal level.

"She may be the case study," Gingrich said.

But massive reorganization of government has proved much easier at the state rather than the federal level. There are advocates for the work of whole departments — from lawmakers to agency officials, and from interest groups to individual citizens.

"How realistic is it for a presidential candidate to say they will abolish an agency? It is realistic to say, but not to do," said Brian W. Smith, a political science professor at St. Edwards University in Texas. "Talk is cheap, but killing an agency is not."

Smith said it's not only about an agency's presence in Washington —which generally is the focus of much of the political rhetoric focused on abolishing departments — but the impact abolishing any agency can have across the country.

"Abolishing agencies is a dirty and nasty process with clear losers — people and communities depend on these agencies for their livelihoods," he said. "Right across the street from my university is an IRS facility. What happens to the people that work there?"

Raymond Orbach, who was sworn in as the Energy Department's first under secretary for science in June 2006, said the agency's functions are vital to national security and scientific advancement.

"What people do not understand is that this is not just a federal agency but a federal agency that runs 17 national labs. It is the largest supporter of physician science, larger," he said, than the National Science Foundation, "and it has just extraordinary, important reach across the country."

In addition, it is the home of the National Nuclear Security Administration, which maintains the country's nuclear weapons stockpile and works on global security and nonproliferation efforts.

"The relationship to the NNSA to the rest of the department and basic science is crucial," Orbach said. "It is a complex relationship that has been built over time."

Still, DeSantis is the latest in a long line of Republicans to propose cutting Energy and the other departments.

Ronald Reagan railed against the creation of the Education Department when he ran against Carter in 1980, but it remained intact during his two terms. Fifteen years later, Gingrich eventually compromised with the GOP-controlled Senate to preserve Energy, Education and Commerce Departments in that year's congressional budget.

In 2012, then-Texas Gov. Rick Perry memorably forgot the name of the Energy Department, which he would later run for Trump, during a televised primary debate.

Rep. Darren Soto, a Florida Democrat who sits on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, said DeSantis' proposal would "threaten national security and public safety, drive us into a recession and let discrimination run rampant" if it were enacted.

"Commerce is our main jobs agency, powering our current manufacturing boom and overseeing parts of our ambitious infrastructure plan," Soto said. "Education protects students with disabilities and English language learners. And the IRS collects the funding to run our U.S. military and other key federal programs."

Abolishing the IRS has become a popular call to action among conservatives in recent years. Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, campaigned on the idea when he ran for president in 2016, and some of his aides from that bid are now working to elect DeSantis.

Rep. Buddy Carter, R-Ga., introduced legislation this year that would end the IRS as part of a broader plan to replace income, gift, payroll and estate taxes with a flat national sales tax that would start at 23% in 2025.

Democrats believe that the flat tax plan, which Speaker Kevin McCarthy agreed to bring to the House floor as part of a deal to secure votes for his speakership, will backfire on Republicans politically.

"They want to raise taxes on the middle class by taxing thousands of everyday items from groceries, gasoline, clothing, and cutting taxes for the wealthiest," Biden said in January. "They want working-class folks to be paying another 10, 20 percent on their taxes, depending on where they live and how they’re spending the money. And they’re going to reduce taxes for the super wealthy."

Trump proposed sweeping cuts to Education and Commerce Department programs during his term. But he did not seek to eliminate any Cabinet department or the IRS.

One measure of the potential political backlash of the flat tax idea — which Republicans call the "fair tax" — is the way allies of the top contenders for the GOP nomination have ripped each candidate over it.

Trump's MAGA Inc. super PAC launched an ad in May accusing DeSantis of wanting to raise taxes based on his co-sponsorship of an earlier version of Carter's bill when he was a member of the House. Never Back Down, the superPAC supporting DeSantis, responded by pulling together past clips of Trump mentioning "flat" and "fair" taxes in advocating for the U.S. to simplify its tax system.

The broad concept of getting rid of the IRS is popular with GOP primary voters, according to strategists and polls.

"As a Republican, any time you talk about eliminating the IRS, you get plaudits," said David Urban, a former Trump campaign adviser who is neutral in the race. He noted that Biden's push to beef up IRS enforcement has made the issue a particularly hot button for Republicans.

That may overshadow the timing of DeSantis' pledge, made as House Republicans are demanding testimony from senior Justice Department and IRS officials following whistleblower allegations that political considerations impeded the agency's investigation.

What remains unclear is how DeSantis plans to collect revenue if he abolishes the IRS but does not shift to a national sales tax.

Cheung said Trump's specificity on policy is a key contrast with DeSantis.

"That's why he's dominating in poll after poll — both nationally and statewide — and is the only candidate who can beat Joe Biden," Cheung said of Trump.

This article was originally published on NBCNews.com