Sasha Grey: Why Hollywood Was Way Creepier Than Porn
On the day of our chat, Sasha Grey awoke at 4:38 a.m. to her entire house shaking—courtesy of a 3.1-magnitude earthquake that struck the Los Angeles area. “It was probably one of the scariest earthquakes I’ve ever experienced,” the native Californian says. “I yelped awake! It was the weirdest thing. I did not even know I could make that sound.”
There are few things that Grey hasn’t experienced. By 22, she’d achieved porn immortality, featuring in an estimated 200 films. Then Hollywood came calling, with starring roles in Steven Soderbergh’s The Girlfriend Experience and HBO’s Entourage. She released a book of photographs, wrote a series of erotic novels, made industrial music, toured the globe as a DJ, Twitch-streamed, and even found herself caught in a Russian propaganda war. Now, she’s hosting her own late-night talk show.
Yes, Grey—along with the Korean battle rapper Dumbfoundead—will host Grey Area, a live talk show that will debut on new videogame network VENN on Friday, Aug. 7 at 7 p.m. PT. The show will see Grey and Dumbfoundead speak candidly on a number of topics, from current events to offering viewers sex advice. As Grey says, “I feel we represent the underrepresented—and now we’re entering this circle of pop culture, and that’s incredibly important because it validates some of these views.”
I’ve interviewed Grey a number of times, and have always been struck by her candor and quiet profundity. So it doesn’t surprise me one bit that the 32-year-old is hosting a talk show. Over the course of our hour-long interview, we discussed this exciting new chapter of her career, as well as her unvarnished thoughts on the adult industry and Hollywood.
Yelp-inducing earthquakes aside, how are you handling the pandemic?
It’s dragged out much longer than a lot of us probably anticipated it would. There are good days and bad days, but overall, I’m just grateful I’ve been able to stay busy. I’ve seen people say that they’re “bored,” and I know everyone’s personality is a bit different, but for me it’s like an unconscious panic set in and it threw me into overdrive. I started streaming extra. I’ve been streaming for a year and a half on Twitch multiple times a week, but because of the intensity and panic that I could see everybody else experiencing, I felt like I had to pay it back and thank my fans and audience even more so. And then VENN came along. They’d been watching my Twitch stream and contacted me about this idea for Grey Area.
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And your talk show Grey Area is really an extension of your Twitch stream in a sense, since you do provide quite a bit of commentary on there, right?
Other than the fact that we’re in a big studio and with producers and those obvious things, on Twitch, I’ve tried to remain pretty PG-13—which is weird for me, because I’ve always been very outspoken about everything that I do. One of the things that held me back is that I know, wherever you are on the internet, there’s always going to be a toxic component, so I wanted to develop a really positive community and set the right tone—and I know there are tons of young kids tuning in. What I love about Grey Area is it represents my ethos and represents the things that I’ve stood for since the beginning of my career. Along with Dumbfoundead, we’re going to be able to get into really important topics and be more adult-friendly.
How would you define that “ethos” you mentioned?
The No. 1 thing is that I’ve always encouraged other people to live their lives in a healthy manner—without being afraid of labels or repression. It goes along with my own experiences, and my own trajectory. We can redefine what is considered “decent,” but we can also do it in a fun, sophisticated way, and we can be unapologetic and unashamed. We’re living in a fascinating time, culturally speaking, and I feel that for the first time the culture as a whole is waking up and understanding these things, and it makes me very proud and grateful.
But hypocrisy is still thriving in America. I mean, look no further than our current president who feigns piousness but is clearly not about that life.
Oh, 100 percent. I don’t think there’s a Christian bone in his body. A true Christian is nonjudgmental, first and foremost, and they’re accepting. Just the other day, “Demon Sperm” was trending. These are the views being upheld by the highest office in the country! It’s crazy. Those things are extremely dangerous. I think that’s why there’s been this cultural shift in terms of people being more outspoken and encouraging of other people, even if they personally don’t agree with them.
I’ve never understood America’s view of sexuality. It’s so weird and repressed and puritanical. The porn industry is incredibly popular, so why can’t porn stars be on billboards or glossy advertisements? Why does that acknowledgement have to be done in the shadows?
It’s something I’ve always been fascinated and frustrated by—especially during my time in the adult industry. Porn, now more than ever, is at an all-time pop-culture high. Even porn isn’t rock ’n’ roll anymore, you know what I mean? It’s accepted and it’s not simultaneously. It’s a really bizarre thing.
I imagine your show will contribute to eliminating how taboo certain subjects are. And it’ll also stand out from the current late-night lineup, which is mostly men making jokes about Trump.
One of the most exciting things about it is this is live, and we’ll be able to harness what we do on Twitch, only on a much bigger scale, and have conversations that people aren’t “allowed” to have.
Sasha Grey hosting Grey Area
As a Twitch streamer, what did you think about Joe Rogan’s recent comments that videogames are “a big problem” and “a waste of time?”
Ugh. I feel like he’s the ultimate troll! He’s a smart guy and knows when to strike at just the right time. I don’t know if I’d put a lot of weight into that. He’s baiting. He wants that reaction from people. He comes up as a topic in my streams all the time, and the Joe Rogan I know is NewsRadio and Fear Factor. I remember the early days of his podcast and website but I never listened to it—and still don’t listen to it.
I know you wear a bunch of different hats, but how’s the Hollywood acting stuff going?
I really took a step back. Time has flown by so fast. There was a lot going on after Entourage, including doing voiceover work for Saint’s Row, where I got to go to Comic-Con, and lots of indie films after that. Then I threw myself into writing, and the success of the first novel [The Juliette Society] internationally is what drove me to stick with that. Before I knew it, five years went by. When you age five years in Hollywood, you’re turning a whole other page. During that period, I was going through personal things and my heart was just not in it. I auditioned for some things right around the time I lost my Dad and I just went, “I can’t do this right now.” For me, being able to lose myself—in a positive way—in writing, and dedicate myself to that, was a saving grace for me. Now, I’ve really put myself into writing other projects and making music, because both writing and music can be done collaboratively but on your own volition. You have to answer to fewer people and have more of a say in what you’re doing.
Speaking of Hollywood and Entourage, I’m curious what your experience was like on that show. Because several of the men on it—including recently Kevin Connolly—have been accused of sexual misconduct. So it sounds like there were a lot of creeps on that set.
I’ve read a lot of that stuff, too. My experience, like many things in my life, was like an outsider joining something that was extremely established. On the set itself, I never experienced anything like sexual harassment—well, actually, let me think about that… Let’s just say, I never experienced things when it comes to those people. Because of who I am and what I represent, I probably experience things that other people don’t—even other women—but at the same time, it feels like all women go through these things.
You did pause there for a bit. Were there some creepy comments or behavior directed your way on Entourage?
So… there were weird things that happened in the press during that period, and I was questioned often as if I were the one who leaked things to the press—which I didn’t. I’ve never been that person. A lot of people in Hollywood play that game, and I’ve never played that sort of game. That was a little hard to take, only because I was the easy target, and it was an insult that I was questioned about those things. And even after that, I heard rumors about [Entourage] about myself, random people I’d meet would say, “Oh, I heard this and that,” and these were complete untruths. But you have to always pick your battles, and nobody would dare approach me with those things face to face. It’s a side effect of the business.
What were those untruths? Were they the guys on the show lying about having been with you?
You said it, I didn’t! Something like that, yeah.
I’ve done a lot of reporting on abuse both within Hollywood and the adult industry, and I’m curious: Which did you find to be worse?
Hollywood. Can’t lie. I had far worse experiences in terms of sexual harassment there than I ever did in the adult industry. In the adult industry, I feel like the majority of the negative things I experienced were more ageism-related and manipulating me into thinking I was worth less than I was financially—as salespeople do.
Which bad Hollywood experiences really stand out for you?
Oh man. I can’t tell you how many times people, even in meetings, tried to reach down my pants or come on to me—in totally uncalled-for moments.
Sasha Grey in Entourage
Were these mostly producers? They’re traditionally the sleaziest.
Yup. Mostly. And agents. I think this behavior is rampant in many industries, but both of these industries are incredibly superficial. They both perpetuate this superficial ideal of what is beautiful and what is taste, so I feel like these [abuse] issues are amplified because people, and specifically women—and let’s face it, even young boys—you’re using your image as the forefront of your career, so it makes it that much more twisted when we hear all these different stories come out.
Speaking of abusers, I remember how James Deen, who is by pretty much all accounts a terrible person, smeared you on your way out of the industry. He basically said you were the Voldemort of porn, and the one name that people dare not mention.
When you asked me this before over margaritas, I took the high road—and this was before all the #MeToo stuff. And in retrospect, I regret that because even today, my manager hit me up because there was some random article quoting him. Let me just say on the record: I don’t think this “Voldemort of the industry” thing is true, though I can’t speak for the entire industry, but all the other things he said were flat-out lies. He said that I went to the Entourage audition, started crying, and said porn “ruined my life.” I didn’t even audition for Entourage—they came to me. Second of all, I never cried or stated any of those things. It’s so bizarre to me that someone would invent that. It’s borderline insanity to just make those things up.
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The Porn World Exposes Mia Khalifa
There’s been a lot of talk surrounding Mia Khalifa and her porn residuals (or lack thereof), and how little money stars get on the back-end even though these videos live online and continue to be watched millions of times. You remain a popular figure in that world, so do you receive any residuals?
I never got into the industry for money. That wasn’t my driving factor. I can say, though, that after several months—and gaining recognition that I never could have imagined, in and outside the industry—I started to look at things differently as a businessperson. I thought, OK, art and business should and could co-exist, especially when I’m putting myself on the line. During my short but intense career, I started putting my focus into doing my own thing, directing and producing my own stuff. That being said, my first and last company failed, and that’s when I decided to move on.
If money wasn’t the driving factor, what was it?
Going in, it was to challenge the stereotypes of what is acceptable in society regarding women’s sexuality and female sexuality—although it went beyond whether you identify as a female or not. It was about encouraging people to be self-empowered and take control of their own voice. That doesn’t mean that everyone needs to choose this path, but hopefully this could be a way to empower people to be strong, unashamed, and unapologetic, because men have been able to be that way for a long time and it’s still looked down upon for women.
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