Wrestling Mailbag: Final Iowa-Penn State thoughts, Gabe Arnold, heavyweight spladles, more

A few of you guys asked about top wrestling and riding-versus-turning and hooking ankles and what could be done about all of it, so let's just address that one here at the top — because I have a lot of thoughts on this.

A lot of the frustration centers on the way some Penn State wrestlers rode their Iowa opponents in the top-ranked Nittany Lions' 23-14 win over the second-ranked Hawkeyes last Friday night. Penn State wrestlers, and even the Hawkeyes, hooked their opponents' ankle when on top to keep them from escaping from bottom.

I also saw similar tactics used when both Northern Iowa and Iowa State wrestled Oklahoma State on Saturday and Sunday, respectively. I have seen similar tactics in other duals I've watched this season and in previous seasons. It's not an action-packed technique. Kind of boring, if we're being honest, which is why wrestling fans are mad.

Here's the thing: it's perfectly legal and well within the rules, and as much as you and I don't like watching that kind of wrestling, I'm never going to knock a team or a coach or a wrestler for doing what they can to win a match, especially when the matches are big ones in a dual meet between the nation's two best teams.

MORE: 19 things we learned from Iowa’s 23-14 loss to top-ranked Penn State

Army West Point coach Kevin Ward shared some information earlier this month, and I made it a point to share his post Sunday, when the Iowa State fans in front of me at Hilton Coliseum were complaining about the way Carter Young rode Casey Swiderski on Sunday. Here's some key language in that ruling that Ward tweeted out:

"The offensive (top) wrestler is stalling if they: A) do not aggressively attempt to break down their opponent. B) Do not make an effort to return a rear-standing wrestler back to the mat." They may not also excessively utilize dropping to a leg, the waist-and-ankle ride, or the side headlock.

Basically, stalling on top doesn't exist as long as you follow those stipulations. But here's the kicker, also from Ward's post:

"… pursuit of near fall is not required to satisfy the offensive action requirement …"

That's wild, right?

In some respect, I get it. When you break it down, the big-picture goal of folkstyle wrestling is to control your opponent, and there's nothing that gets to the heart of that idea more than keeping your opponent on the mat for a long period of time. But that rulebook language has to change if you want to see a different product on the mat.

What could be done to change it? There are ideas floating out there. Some of them are even good ones. I've always been a proponent of eliminating riding-time. David Taylor, one of Penn State's all-timers, suggested that you only get the riding-time point if you score back points. (DT also suggested no more stall calls and for a push-out point, which is a little too much freestyle for my folkstyle, but I get why he wants that.)

This is a conversation that will likely continue into the month of February and will definitely come up again in March, when some wrestler somewhere uses that hooked-ankle ride to win a big match at their conference tournament or even the NCAA Championships. Maybe that'll spark change. We'll see.

One final tangentially-related thought: a handful of wrestling fans thought Friday's dual was boring because of the riding and lack of offense, but a lot of the casual fans or non-wrestling fans who were loosely interested that tuned have told me they loved it. That dynamic has been really interesting (and kind of funny) to track.

Big Ten Network announced today that the dual had 388,000 viewers, a new network record and the most-viewed regular season NCAA wrestling audience across any network in the last eight years. The last three Iowa-Penn State duals are actually the three most-watched NCAA wrestling duals in the last eight years.

We can continue this top-wrestling conversation and also still acknowledge that the sport is in as good of a place as it's ever been. That's a really, really cool thing.

MORE WRESTLING:5 takeaways on Iowa State, UNI after wrestling OU and OK State

OK, on to the Wrestling Mailbag. This is our fifth mailbag this month, a reminder that the month of January sometimes feels really, really long. Also, this is our second mailbag in the last eight days — which is the same amount of takedowns Iowa wrestlers have scored in the same span. Zing!

Please give me a follow on Twitter and I’ll keep you up to date on all things wrestling in Iowa. Don't forget to tune into the Register's wrestling podcast, In the Room, each week. You can find the latest episodes below.

Thanks for your help here, and for reading.

What does Iowa vs. Penn State look like in a tournament setting?

It seems like after the Iowa-Penn State dual every year, most fans — though not all — are instantly ready for the postseason, even though all three of Iowa's Division I teams still have some major dual meets in February. Not a shot at those who are ready for tournament time. I get it. Just an observation.

But let's play this way-too-early game for a minute. Can Iowa get to 129 points at the NCAA Championships?

Probably too early to tell, to be honest, but let's see if we can construct this puzzle:

Spencer Lee needs to win and probably needs to score north of 25 team points in the process. He peaked with 27 at the 2018 NCAA Championships, so let's start there.

When the season began, I figured Iowa probably needed another NCAA finalist or two between Real Woods (141), Jacob Warner (197), and Tony Cassioppi (285). A finalist is worth 16 team points (12 for placement plus 4 for advancement) before bonus points. For the sake of the exercise, let's assume both Woods and Cassioppi get to Saturday night. That's 32.

Whoever doesn't get to the final out of that group probably needs to get to the third-place match, at least, whether that's after a semifinal loss or through the wrestlebacks. So let's assign Warner fourth, something he's done before. That's another 12.5.

Behind them, Iowa needs its role guys to step up. That means Max Murin needs to break through the bloodround and become an All-American. That means Patrick Kennedy, in the country's deepest weight, needs to be on the podium. That means Abe Assad, who didn't wrestle last Friday, needs to wrestle to his ceiling and finish in the top-8. For our purposes here, we'll give Murin, Kennedy, and Assad all points for seventh, which is 6.5 each.

Then you need Brody Teske, Cobe Siebrecht, and Nelson Brands to all pitch in. I am of the belief that they're all capable of winning key matches at the NCAA Championships. The most optimistic among us probably thinks they can reach Friday night's bloodround, where one more win secures All-American honors. Reaching the bloodround can be either 1.5 or 2 points before bonus.

So let's tally that up:

• 27 from Spencer Lee

• 32 combined from Real Woods and Tony Cassioppi

• 12.5 from Jacob Warner

• 19.5 combined from Max Murin, Patrick Kennedy, Abe Assad

• 6 combined from Brody Teske, Cobe Siebrecht, Nelson Brands

That's 97, and that's before any potential bonus points from guys Woods, Cassioppi, Kennedy, etc. They've got their work cut out for them to get to 129, but it's possible. That 2021 title team scored 27 total bonus points — and also had a point deducted because of Austin DeSanto.

It would help if Woods won 141. It would help if Warner made a repeat run to the NCAA finals. It would help if Murin, Kennedy, and Assad all finish above the seventh-place finish we're giving them. It would help if Teske, Siebrecht, and Brands all wrestle above the bloodround finish that we're giving them. It would help if everybody pitched in with bonus points. It's going to take everybody.

The final part of Hawkwatch7's question here is important: is it enough to catch Penn State?

Quick math says four returning NCAA champs should score 80 points before bonus (16 for placement, 4 for advancement). That doesn't include heavyweight Greg Kerkvliet, who could reach the finals and add another 16. That's 96 right there for Penn State — and if Kerkvliet makes the finals, logic suggests he'd beat Cassioppi in the semifinals to get there, which would subtract points from Iowa's hypothetical total here.

On top of that, Penn State clearly has some dudes that can score at 141, 149, 157, and 165, too. So as long as the Nittany Lion hammers hit, there's a decent-sized margin-for-error. For Iowa, that margin-for-error is virtually nonexistent. This thought exercise has me thinking that the Hawkeyes could wrestle out of their minds in March, and it may not matter if Penn State takes care of their own business. Prepare yourselves for that now.

Iowa basically needs to wrestle a perfect tournament and get a little bit of help to catch Penn State, unless they just morph into the 1997 team and put six in the finals and eight on the podium. We'll learn more as the regular season winds down — the battle for second could get interesting with Missouri and Ohio State getting healthier — and even more after the conference tournaments, but you can see here today that it's going to be an uphill battle.

Comparing Carver-Hawkeye Arena to the Bryce Jordan Center

Gotta admit, the theatrics inside the Bryce Jordan Center last Friday night were pretty impressive. The lights were a nice touch, the Penn State wrestlers running out from one corner and through a walkway lined by fans was cool to see on TV, the staged mat literally elevated everything. It looked like a fantastic atmosphere.

And yet … I think I'd still take the Carver experience.

The show inside the BJC was spectacular, and should be commended. We need more of that in wrestling. The folks at Carver have taken steps to enhance the wrestling atmosphere. The fire during the intros and walkouts is a nice touch, for example. I think they could do even more, like putting seats closer to the mat.

There are a couple of key things that help Carver here, and they both have to do with the crowd — and I'm not talking about the jabronis that yell degrading remarks at opponents.

To build Carver, they literally dug a bowl-shaped hole in the ground. The crowd feels on top of the action. It can be an intimidating thing if you've never felt it before. It's weird to discuss a structural, architectural thing through the lens of the fans, but it's a real thing. The Bryce Jordan Center is more of a traditional arena, but the floor space they have allows them to bring all those chairs matside, not unlike the NCAA Championships.

On top of that, when the Carver crowd is in full throat — after Tony Ramos pinned Jimmy Gulibon, after Michael Kemerer beat Mark Hall, after Spencer Lee's debut — there is not an atmosphere on the planet that can replicate that sound and energy. At least I haven't found one.

Maybe my opinion would change after a trip to the Bryce Jordan Center, or any other electric wrestling or sports venue. I went to BJC in 2015 to cover Iowa's 18-12 win over Penn State. The atmosphere was a lot of fun. I think I'd appreciate it more if I'd go now. It would've been a treat to be there last Friday night.

BJC puts on a great wrestling show. I still think I'd take Carver, but that's just me.

Iowa wrestling program's history of developing wrestlers

I can give you so many examples of Iowa's developmental success stories and getting a lot out of their guys in March. Where do you want to start?

This year, there's Cobe Siebrecht, an under-the-radar local prospect who many probably didn't peg as a Division I guy coming out of high school. He's now ranked No. 15 nationally and will be a crucial part of the Hawkeyes' postseason puzzle. That's development.

Last year, Jacob Warner made the NCAA finals. Sure, he was a blue-chipper — the No. 7 overall prospect in the 2017 class — but he's lived up to his billing and then some, and that's never a guarantee. He's now a three-time All-American and NCAA finalist who will finish his Iowa career with 90-plus wins, including many that have come in the month of March.

The year before, Jaydin Eierman, a talented three-time All-American from Missouri who hadn't made the NCAA finals … until he came to Iowa. Before Eierman, there was Austin DeSanto, a polarizing wrestler who became a fan favorite on top of finishing as a three-time All-American, and Pat Lugo, who went from two-time qualifier to an All-American, Big Ten champion, and the 1-seed at the 2020 NCAA Championships.

And those are just the obvious ones. We could keep going.

Tony Cassioppi was not a world-class heavyweight when he stepped on campus. Abe Assad has resembled more of the All-American threat this season after dealing with injuries. There's a case that Spencer Lee may not be in line for a fourth title if he had gone somewhere else. He came to Iowa for the coaches, first and foremost.

Iowa fans want national titles. I get that. But development is still taking place. And the other thing to remember is that other Division I coaches are paid to do the same things that Tom and Terry Brands are paid to do. Everybody is good at this level. I think it says a lot that Iowa's continued to have the staying power they've had.

Are there not-as-successful stories out there? You bet. But they're everywhere, not just at Iowa. An easy knock on Penn State, for example, is their lack of consistency and production at 125 since Nico Megaludis won an NCAA title in 2016. That was seven years ago. Since then, Penn State 125-pounders have scored exactly two points at the national tournament from 2017-22 (1.5 from Robbie Howard in 2021, .5 from Drew Hildebrandt in 2022).

But this narrative that Iowa doesn't develop guys is hilarious. Of course they develop guys. They wouldn't have won 13 NCAA trophies at the last 14 national tournaments if they didn't.

Hypothetical duals between Iowa State and Michigan and Ohio State

Not sure that that's fully established, just because Iowa State won't get to wrestle Michigan and Ohio State. They will, however, get a crack at Missouri in February, and they wrestle Pittsburgh this weekend, so perhaps by the time February ends, we'll have enough evidence to know for sure.

Anyways, the most interesting part of this question, to me, was the comparisons to Michigan and Ohio State, and that led me to writing out what a hypothetical dual meet between the Cyclones and Wolverines and Buckeyes might look like.

And who doesn't like hypothetical duals?

Here's Iowa State vs. Michigan:

• 125: Caleb Fuessley/Conor Knopick vs. Jack Medley

• 133: Ramazan Attasaouv/Zach Redding vs. Dylan Ragusin

• 141: Casey Swiderski vs. Cole Mattin

• 149: Paniro Johnson vs. Chance Lamer

• 157: Jason Kraisser vs. Will Lewan

• 165: David Carr vs. Cam Amine

• 174: Julien Broderson vs. Max Maylor

• 184: Marcus Coleman vs. Matt Finesilver

• 197: Yonger Bastida vs. Brendin Yatooma

• 285: Sam Schuyler vs. Mason Parris

I mean, I'd watch that.

Probably give Iowa State the edge at 149, 165, 184, 197, give Michigan the edge at 125, 157, 285, then toss-ups at 133, 141, 174. I like the Cyclones' bonus potential at 184 and 197 and the Wolverines' bonus potential at 285.

Here's Iowa State vs. Ohio State:

• 125: Caleb Fuessley/Conor Knopick vs. Malik Heinselman

• 133: Ramazan Attasaouv/Zach Redding vs. Jesse Mendez

• 141: Casey Swiderski vs. Dylan D'Emilio

• 149: Paniro Johnson vs. Sammy Sasso

• 157: Jason Kraisser vs. Paddy Gallagher

• 165: David Carr vs. Carson Kharchla

• 174: Julien Broderson vs. Ethan Smith

• 184: Marcus Coleman vs. Kaleb Romero

• 197: Yonger Bastida vs. Gavin Hoffman

• 285: Sam Schuyler vs. Tate Orndorff

Another fun matchup, but the Buckeyes look like a tougher matchup on paper. Give Ohio State the edge at 125, 133, 174, give Iowa State the edge at 165, 197, 285, then toss-ups at 141, 149, 157, 184. I would also watch this one. We should make these duals happen.

Iowa wrestler Drake Ayala wrestled this past weekend … at 133 pounds

From Tom, via Twitter DM: Drake wrestled at 133 this weekend, is that the norm moving forward or just where the opportunity was? And: Pat Glory (from what I can tell) has also been at 133 the last few duals. He announced he was staying at 125 this year, has that changed, or are these just a few isolated events?

Don't think too hard on Drake Ayala wrestling 133 this past weekend, at the Pat 'Flash' Flanagan Open. He's just hunting competition while redshirting and may find more of it up a weight. He looked really good too, going 4-0 with a 47-second pin, two 20-point technical falls, then a 7-2 finals win over Northern Iowa's Cory Land. He'll be at 125 moving forward, but he just wants to compete and wrestle. Can't blame him.

Regarding Pat Glory: I'm not going to claim to know the details of Princeton's decision-making, but what I do know — which primarily comes from InterMat's EIWA correspondent Austin Sommer, who you should totally follow and read — is that Glory will be at 125 for the postseason. It's also a hard cut for him, so wrestling a few duals at 133 might just be a way to save his body a little bit before multiple-day weigh-ins at bigger tournaments.

Glory appears to be Spencer's chief competition this year. That's no disrespect to the other 125-pounders across the country, but Spencer has already pinned the guys who are ranked Nos. 3, 5, 7, 8 — and he's also beaten Glory twice. It was back during the 2018-19 season, but still.

Early look at the 2023 girls state wrestling championships

All of them. Seriously.

Here are a few different weights that caught my eye on the initial look-thru:

At 110 pounds, the headliners are Osage's Jalynn Goodale, Ottumwa's Jasmine Luedtke, and Southwest Valley's Adyson Lundquist, all past state finalists. But there's also talented wrestlers like Vinton-Shellsburg's Bree Swenson and Cedar Falls' Hope Chiattello and others who will try and break into that top tier.

At 120, it's wide open. The top two seeds, Moravia's Layla Ewing and Pleasant Valley's Abigail Meyrer, are a sophomore and freshmen, respectively. Which sets us up for this fun stat: of the 28 wrestlers seeded 1 or 2 for this week, 13 are either freshmen or sophomores — which is just under half. That's exciting.

Really excited for 125, where Prairie sophomore Mackenzie Childers is the top-seed at 44-0, but there's also Wilton's Hannah Rogers, a returning state champ, and Lewis Central's Sophie Barnes, a past state finalist, in the bracket, too. Can't forget Ridge View's Tatum Shepherd, a returning state medalist who is the 3-seed.

I think 140 is another sneaky fun weight, with Lewis Central's Mahri Manz, Centerville's Sarah Lewis, Waverly-Shell Rock's Kiara Djoumessi, and Center Point-Urbana's Moorea Brown. I think a potential finals matchup at 170 between Decorah's Naomi Simon and Southeast Polk's Bella Porcelli would be great. They met in the finals last year, and Simon ultimately won by fall, but it was tied 3-3 late into the second period.

Simon and Charles City's Lilly Luft are both attempting to join Bettendorf's Ella Schmit and Iowa Valley's Millie Peach as three-time girls state champs. Simon has Porcelli and Luft could potentially see Vinton-Shellsburg's talented freshman Chloe Sanders. We haven't had a female four-timer yet, but Simon is tracking toward being the first. Among the 14 returning state champs, three are sophomores, so more could be on the way.

We'll have more girls wrestling coverage coming this week ahead of the tournament, and then wall-to-wall coverage once the tournament starts Thursday morning. It's shaping up to be a fun week. I hope you guys tune in and follow along. These girls are incredible wrestlers, and they'll put on one heck of a show at Xtream Arena.

MORE:2023 Iowa high school girls state wrestling primer: Qualifiers, returning champs, unbeatens

Previewing the 2023 Iowa high school state duals championships

I think the fact that it's no longer during the same week as the traditional state tournament is the storyline this year.

Having state duals the day before the traditional state tournament robbed wrestling fans of a true duals championship. We've been fortunate enough to get some epic clashes in recent years, between Waverly-Shell Rock and Southeast Polk, between Don Bosco and Lisbon, on and on. But there have been many times where teams wrestle to win their first-round dual, then punt in the semifinals to stay ready for the individual tournament.

We won't have that issue this year — or at least we shouldn't. Regional competitions are this week, and state duals are all day Saturday at Xtream Arena, a full two weeks before the traditional state tournament. We'll see everybody give their best efforts. We'll see coaches shuffle lineups to try and strategize and win. All three rounds should be hotly contested. It'll be exciting.

I'm excited to see how teams compete and approach state duals this year. I think it'll be a lot more fun and intriguing. The finals are always great, but the rounds leading up to it should be even better.

Future Hawkeye Gabe Arnold called out Carter Starocci on Twitter

From jrod65, via Twitter DM: Your thoughts on Gabe Arnold publicly calling out Carter Starocci.

My first thought when I saw the tweet was, 'Oh (dang), Gabe must be feelin' it tonight.'

I don't really have an issue with it. I'm a huge Gabe Arnold fan — as a wrestler, sure, but also as a human being. I love his mindset and his process and the way he approaches both wrestling and life. He didn't mean any actual disrespect by his tweet. He said as much in an interview with FloWrestling's Andy Hamilton on Saturday:

"I’m not taking anything away from Carter Starocci," Gabe said. "He’s one of the best at 174 pounds, and that’s who I’m looking at every day. That’s who I see. That’s who I have to beat next year."

More than anything, a comment like that sets a high bar for Gabe moving forward. People will watch, closely, and critique and poke at anything that isn't NCAA championship-caliber. Fair or not, a tweet like that will incite that reaction. It kind of already did, if you go read the replies.

Here's the thing, though: Gabe welcomes that challenge. Always. He's insanely confident, and recently, he's backed that up. It is incredibly hard to beat another talented, Division I-level wrestler three times in a row in the span of two months, but he's done that this year. He's won national titles and is considered one of the country's very best high school wrestlers.

Winning these matches isn't a huge, monumental thing, but it speaks to Gabe's process and mindset and overall wrestling ability that he's been able to do it. He and Tate Naaktgeboren are more similar than different in those specific regards, and that's why I love watching them wrestle each other. They put it on the line and keep firing. Just go compete. That's what the best of the best do, and one reason why this sport is so great.

So that tweet, more than anything, was just Gabe Arnold being a competitor. Was it bold? Of course. Can he beat Carter Starocci? No clue. That's going to be a tough assignment, because not only is Starocci a two-time NCAA champ, he's on the U.S. men's freestyle Senior national team. Starocci is also a guy that has previously called out other elite-level wrestlers too, and my reaction to him doing that is similar to what Gabe did here.

Both of these guys have big goals for their wrestling careers. Perhaps this is a way for Gabe to hold his future self accountable. He's got a bright future ahead of him. Wrestling fans all over, and Iowa fans especially, should be excited about Gabe when he officially joins the program here soon.

Grand View heavyweight Greg Hagan hit a spladle last Friday

It was one of the most fantastic things I've ever seen.

Like, seriously.

For those who may have missed it. Grand View's Greg Hagan, the top-ranked heavyweight wrestler in NAIA, built a 6-0 lead over Nebraska-Kearney's Lee Herrington, the top-ranked heavyweight in NCAA's Division II, and then pinned him in a spladle … all in the first period.

You can see it here.

Speaking of which — this week, I'm grateful for heavyweight wrestlers who wrestle like lighter weights. We have a lot more of those around the country nowadays, at all levels, and it makes this sport so much more enjoyable to watch.

Cody Goodwin covers wrestling and high school sports for the Des Moines Register. Follow him on Twitter at @codygoodwin.

This article originally appeared on Des Moines Register: Wrestling Mailbag: More Iowa-Penn St. thoughts, Gabe Arnold, Iowa St.