Fake elector cooperating with government takes stand: Thought we were doing the right thing

LANSING — The lone individual to reach a cooperation agreement in Michigan's fake elector case said in court Wednesday that the group of Republicans who attempted to deliver the state's electoral votes to former President Donald Trump despite his election loss in 2020 thought they were doing the right thing.

James Renner, who had his case dropped in October after agreeing to cooperate with Attorney General Dana Nessel's Office, took the stand as the preliminary examinations for six of the individuals charged with a series of forgery- and election-related felonies continued Wednesday. At the conclusion of the preliminary examination hearings, Ingham County 54-A District Judge Kristen Simmons will determine whether there is enough evidence to send the group to a jury trial.

Renner was one of the 16 people to sign documents attempting to give the state's electoral votes to Trump, despite his 2020 election loss in Michigan by about 154,000 votes to President Joe Biden. During his testimony, Renner explained how he was contacted to attend the meeting where the documents were signed, and the rationale he and others were given. Later, he detailed how the group was denied entry into the Michigan Capitol on Dec. 14, 2020, when they attempted to deliver the false documents.

At that time, Democratic electors were casting electoral votes for Biden.

“The purpose was to present the slate of candidates," Renner, 77, said. "We were told the representatives and senators had the ability to select our candidates against the Democratic candidates.”

Renner later testified the group was also told the documents needed to be signed in the event that legal action or a recount ended up flipping Michigan's election results for Trump. The Trump campaign and other allies saw numerous election lawsuits tossed, and no formal recount of the 2020 in Michigan ended up taking place.

“There (was) so much going on at the time, I don’t know if it was pending, hoped for, or turned down. The idea was if there was a successful recount, we would not have to meet again,” Renner said. He recalled concerns about absentee ballot counting at what is now called the Huntington Center in Detroit.

A series of more than 250 audits conducted in Michigan affirmed the 2020 election results, election officials announced in 2021.

During cross-examination, Renner said the group was told what they were doing was an "appropriate process," although he couldn't identify who exactly informed the group. In previous testimony, witnesses have said attorneys for Trump's campaign were guiding the group.

“The individuals were all attempting to do the right thing as far as they knew what was the right thing," he said. "Did I pick up on any illegal activity, or (if) any charges could be placed against us? No. We were told this was an appropriate process.”

When defense attorney Mary Chartier asked again whether Renner believed it was an appropriate process, Renner replied "Yes. I believed what we were being told by the individuals at the meeting who were representing themselves as appropriate leaders.”

Chartier continued to ask questions where Renner would reiterate he didn't think he was doing anything illegal by signing the documents. Throughout the preliminary examinations, defense attorneys have argued their clients were concerned about election results and did not believe they were doing anything illegal.

“If you had thought that a crime was being committed, in terms of signing your name, you would have never agreed to go to that meeting?" Chartier asked.

“That is accurate, absolutely," Renner replied. “I would’ve challenged it. My background is enforcing the law, not breaking the law. I brought up my family that way, we respect the law. If I had knowingly been told this was a questionable process, I would’ve raised my hand and said ‘hmm, no.’ But the opposite happened.”

Renner was on the stand for slightly more than an hour and a half Wednesday. Prosecutors later called the final government witness, Howard Shock, a special agent for the attorney general's office. Shock went over social media posts and text messages exchanges between those charged in the case in the time leading up to and after the group attempted to deliver the documents to the Capitol.

Renner, to date, is the only individual initially charged to have reached a cooperation agreement with prosecutors. In return for agreeing to work with prosecutors, Renner had all his felony charges dropped. Legal experts previously speculated Renner’s so-called “flip” could lead to others taking agreement deals of their own, but so far, that hasn’t happened.

Catch up: Lawyer for Secretary of U.S. Senate testifies as fake elector preliminary exams resume

Hawaii document comes into focus

Garett Koger, an Okemos attorney representing Kathy Berden, was joined by the other defendants’ lawyers in asking that the electoral certificate from Hawaii for the 1960 presidential election be introduced as an exhibit. Koger said the exhibit shows there was no criminal intent by the defendants because what happened in Hawaii — where Republican candidate Richard Nixon was first thought to have won the state’s electoral votes but it was later determined that Democrat John F. Kennedy had won — was the inspiration for what was attempted in Michigan.

But Assistant Attorney General Kahla Crino said the Hawaii and Michigan situations are so different that “it is not possible for the 1960 Hawaii certificate … to negate anyone’s intent” in the current case. Most notably, a recount was done in Hawaii, but no recount was requested in Michigan, Crino said. Unlike Michigan, the outcome in Hawaii was a narrow one, and the Republican and Democratic electoral candidates met together during a recount that ultimately showed Kennedy had won by 115 votes, she said.

“We do not dispute that this became inspiration for a multistate criminal conspiracy that was absolutely linked to the Trump campaign," Crino said. “But inspiration for how to steal an election is not the same as legal precedent," she added, arguing that the Hawaii certificate is not relevant evidence in the Michigan case.

Simmons said she doesn’t think it’s necessary to see the actual certificate from Hawaii, but she will take judicial notice of it. She said the Michigan and Hawaii situations are different, but not so different that laypeople without legal training might not have relied, in part, on what happened in Hawaii. Therefore, what happened in Hawaii could be relevant to the question of whether defendants in the Michigan case had criminal intent, the judge said.

Kenneth Chesebro, Trump attorney considered architect of national fake elector scheme, could testify when hearings resume

Simmons adjourned for the day before defense attorneys could cross-examine Shock. Given the court's schedule, the preliminary exams may not resume until after mid-April, Simmons said.

Simmons had previously scheduled the preliminary exams for the others charged to begin in mid-April, but has been vocal about not wanting to start the second group's hearings until the first group's hearings conclude.

Most defense attorneys said they did not plan on calling witnesses of their own to testify — with a few notable exceptions. George Donnini, one of Republican National Committeewoman for Michigan Kathy Berden's attorneys, said he plans on calling Aaron Van Langevelde, a former Board of State Canvassers member who's now working in the attorney general's office. Van Langevelde was previously ordered to leave the prosecution team's desk because he could be called as a witness, which was subject to much debate during a previous hearing.

Donnini also mentioned Kenneth Chesebro, an attorney for the Trump campaign, as another witness. Chesebro pleaded guilty last October to participating in efforts to overturn Trump's 2020 loss in Georgia.

The indictment in that case alleged Chesebro led a plan for Republican electors in Georgia to sign fake documents saying they were the state's electors in an attempt to cast votes for Trump, the Associated Press reported, similar to what occurred in Michigan.

Chesebro pleaded guilty to one felony charge of conspiracy to commit filing false documents, according to the AP. He was sentenced to five years' probation and ordered to pay $5,000 in restitution in that case.

A separate hearing is scheduled Friday for Timothy King, who was also charged, after his attorney requested a forensic status review.

Besides Renner, all those charged have pleaded not guilty.

The group, which includes former and current state and national Republican officials, faces felony charges including forgery-related ones each punishable by up to 14 years in prison and election law forgery charges each punishable by up to five years in prison.

There is no jury present for a preliminary examination. The standard of evidence is also lower in a preliminary examination — unlike in a trial where prosecutors have to prove the charge "beyond a reasonable doubt," a judge at a preliminary examination has to determine whether there is probable cause to uphold charges.

Contact Arpan Lobo: alobo@freepress.com. Follow him on X (Twitter) @arpanlobo.

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This article originally appeared on Detroit Free Press: 'I would've challenged it': Fake elector who 'flipped' takes stand