The Excerpt podcast: Trump lawyer makes immunity appeal in court

On today's episode of The Excerpt podcast: Donald Trump's lawyer makes an immunity appeal in court. USA TODAY Justice Department Correspondent Bart Jansen has the latest. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has disclosed the illness that's kept him hospitalized. USA TODAY Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page looks at Nikki Haley's chances in New Hampshire, according to recent polling. AI is here in healthcare, despite objections. How did a phone survive a fall thousands of feet from an Alaska Airlines flight?

Hit play on the player below to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript beneath it.  This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

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Taylor Wilson:

Good morning. I'm Taylor Wilson, and today is Wednesday, January 10th, 2024. This is The Excerpt. Today a look at Trump's immunity claims in Appeals Court, plus we're learning more about Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin's health. And can Nikki Haley close the gap in New Hampshire? We have new polling numbers.

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Former President Donald Trump and his lawyer John Sauer were in Federal Appeals Court yesterday. Trump's legal team argues that he is immune to federal charges of conspiring to interfere in the 2020 election, because his actions took place while he was president. I caught up with USA TODAY Justice Department Correspondent Bart Jansen for the latest.

Bart, as always, thanks for making the time.

Bart Jansen:

Thanks for having me.

Taylor Wilson:

So Bart, Donald Trump's lawyer was in Federal Appeals Court yesterday. Can you remind us what this appeal center's on? What's that issue here?

Bart Jansen:

Well, and it wasn't just his lawyer, Trump himself showed up at the courthouse, because the case is pretty important to him. This was an appeal of a decision involving the federal charges that he conspired to interfere with the results of the 2020 election. So he faces these federal charges. The trial is scheduled for March 4th. He thinks the charges should be dismissed, because as president, when the events took place, he deserves immunity for anything he might've done. And so, the three judge panel at the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals is going to mull his arguments and we'll get a decision that either the trial will continue, or that the charges could potentially be dismissed.

Taylor Wilson:

And so what did Trump's lawyer argue in court specifically on Tuesday?

Bart Jansen:

He argued basically that the Constitution and the founders who drafted it wanted to protect the president from political adversaries who might try to bring criminal charges after a person left office, to punish the person for actions they took as president. So, that a president, if he was worried about actions he was taking or policies that he pursued, contentious stuff that he did, if he was worried that he might be charged criminally sometime down the road, that presidents might be inhibited and it might limit their power. So, Trump's lawyer, John Sauer, argued that you can't allow criminal charges, because they might be just filed willy-nilly. He said if you allow charges in Trump's case that it could open a Pandora's box for the future of the country that could never be closed again.

Taylor Wilson:

And Bart, do we have any previous examples of federal courts ruling on charging a former president?

Bart Jansen:

Well, it's pretty new ground and that's why whatever gets decided in this case is going to be a landmark decision. Whatever this three judge panel decides will almost certainly be appealed to eventually the Supreme Court, so we're probably going to get a final answer on this. One question about that is how soon you get a final answer, Trump would prefer to delay the trial if it is held until after the election. We're still trying to see whether all of this could be resolved before the election. The federal courts really haven't dealt with this decision directly. We do have some Supreme Court decisions that dealt with civil actions against presidents, whether they could be sued while they are in office. And there's a significant case a few decades ago in which they said presidents are protected from civil lawsuits while they're in office, because again, they didn't want presidents to be distracted from their official duties by what could potentially be just a flood of civil litigation over actions that they've taken.

But the courts really haven't ruled directly on whether a president could be exposed to criminal charges, and in this case, particularly a former president facing criminal charges. There is an argument from prosecutors, under Justice Department Special Counsel Jack Smith, that Trump, as a former president, it doesn't matter whether he is charged at all, because it wouldn't influence an administration. It wouldn't change any policies he could embark upon. It's just they think that he broke some laws and that he ought to be held accountable as any other person might be. And so they want to argue, even though Trump served four years as commander in chief, that that doesn't give him basically a get out of jail card for the rest of his life.

Taylor Wilson:

All right. Bart Janssen, covers the Justice Department for USA TODAY. Thanks as always, Bart.

Bart Jansen:

Thanks for having me.

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Taylor Wilson:

The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has been hospitalized since January 1st, because of complications from prostate cancer surgery. The surgery led to a severe infection that has hospitalized him at Walter Reed National Medical Center, according to a statement from his doctors released by the Pentagon. His surgery took place on December 22nd and was minimally invasive and uneventful, according to his doctors. But Austin had severe hip and leg pain on New Year's Day and returned to the hospital. He's remained there since.

Austin's failure to disclose his hospitalization has created a wave of criticism. The Defense Department did not alert the White House that he was hospitalized until three days after he was admitted and did not make the information public until a day after the White House was notified. Even then, the Pentagon did not reveal to the President or the public the nature of his illness. An initial evaluation on January 1st revealed Austin had a urinary tract infection, which has since cleared. He also had fluid drain that was impairing his small intestine.

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The New Hampshire primaries set for January 23rd is less than two weeks away. And former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley has gained some ground on front-runner Donald Trump. But is it enough to pull off a win in the Granite State? I spoke with USA TODAY, Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page for some of the latest USA TODAY, Boston Globe, Suffolk University polling numbers.

Hello, Susan.

Susan Page:

Hey. How you doing?

Taylor Wilson:

Good, good. Thanks for hopping back on The Excerpt. So, Nikki Haley is narrowing the gap with Donald Trump in New Hampshire. What did polling find here, Susan?

Susan Page:

So we did a New Hampshire poll in October, and she was 30 points behind. Now she's behind by 20 points, so she's made up a lot of ground. On the other hand, 20 points is a lot to make up in two weeks, which is how much time we have left until the New Hampshire Primary.

Taylor Wilson:

Maybe the loudest voice against Trump among Republicans has been Chris Christie. How is he fairing in polling for New Hampshire and what would this race look like if he were to drop out?

Susan Page:

It's interesting. He's faced some pressure to drop out on the theory that his supporters would go to Nikki Haley. And it's true that some of them would, although not all of them would. He's now at 12%, he's in third place in New Hampshire. We did the calculations, we'd asked voters their second choice. So if Christie did drop out, Haley would be behind 47 to 32, so by 15 points. He'd be a little closer to that upset territory if he did drop out. On the other hand, Christie has made it pretty clear he has no intention of doing that.

Taylor Wilson:

President Joe Biden won't be on the ballot in New Hampshire. Can you remind us, Susan, why that is and what does polling tell us about his support in the Granite State?

Susan Page:

Well, the Democratic National Committee isn't recognizing the New Hampshire Primary is legitimate, that they won't be able to select delegates to the Democratic convention that will officially choose the party's nominee, but they're going to have the vote anyway. The Biden campaign kept his name off the ballot, because they want the first primary to be in South Carolina a couple weeks later. But in our poll, 64% of those who plan to vote in the Democratic Primary said they would just write in his name. So he may have the easiest victory of all.

Taylor Wilson:

And the New Hampshire Primary is just a couple weeks away. How likely, Susan, is it that voters could change their minds between now and then?

Susan Page:

Most voters say they've made up their minds, but not all of them. And about one out of five voters, particularly those supporting Christie and Nikki Haley, say it's possible or even likely that they will change their minds in the last two weeks. It's not like the Iowa Caucuses. People in Iowa tend to vote for who they say they're going to vote for, but in New Hampshire, it's a little bit more of a mercurial state, and we found that the New Hampshire Primary can sometimes be a surprise.

Taylor Wilson:

All right. Susan Page, primary season is here. Thanks for making the time as always.

Susan Page:

It's my pleasure.

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Taylor Wilson:

Meanwhile, USA TODAY, Boston Globe, Suffolk University polling tells us that democracy is the top issue for democratic and independent voters in New Hampshire this year. For Republicans, its immigration and border security. The fifth GOP Primary debate is set for tonight in Iowa, ahead of the Caucuses there, on January 15th. Only three candidates qualified; Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis, and Donald Trump, though Trump is expected to once again skip out. You can tune in at 9:00 PM Eastern on CNN.

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What's the future of AI in healthcare? Americans are skeptical about artificial intelligence, especially when it comes to their health. But major hospital systems in Cincinnati are already using it. The city's TriHealth uses AI to help diagnose pulmonary embolism, stroke, and breast cancer, and others use it to automate insurance and claims billing, and even to recruit and hire new staffers. Still, according to a 2023 Pew Research survey, most Americans don't trust the technology and fewer than 40% expected AI to improve patient outcomes.

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After a door plug flew off one of Alaska Airlines new Boeing jets last week, and forced an emergency landing, a number of questions have emerged. But there's one bizarre one in particula; how did a phone reportedly fall 16,000 feet from the aircraft and survive intact? A man in Vancouver, Washington, said on social media that he found the phone in Portland alongside a road. He said the phone was in airplane mode and had a baggage receipt from the flight still on its screen. A scientist who spoke with USA TODAY, David Rakestraw, said, "A combination of factors played a role, but in particular where the phone landed, in this case, possibly in a bush instead of directly onto the street a few feet away." Another scientist, Lou Bloomfield said, "The phone's design may have led it to tumble as it fell, so it countered air resistance, similar to a penny that's dropped from tall heights." All passengers and crew from the scary flight survived the incident. You can read more about the science behind the phone drop with a link in today's show notes.

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And before we go, can abandoned coal mines have a second act as a haven for biodiversity in plants and wildlife? Stay tuned to hear Dana Taylor's interview at 4:00 PM later today. Thanks for listening to The Excerpt. You can get the podcast wherever you get your audio. If you use a smart speaker, just ask for The Excerpt. I'm Taylor Wilson, back tomorrow with more of The Excerpt from USA TODAY.

This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: The Excerpt podcast: Donald Trump's lawyer makes immunity appeal