'I don't know who the woman is,' Donald Trump erupts at E. Jean Carroll defamation trial
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NEW YORK − Donald Trump erupted in a Manhattan courtroom Thursday as a judge sought to restrict his testimony in a case over the costly damages he could face for defaming advice columnist E. Jean Carroll when he denied her sexual assault allegations in 2019.
"I don't know who the woman is," Trump said out of turn, as Judge Lewis Kaplan was speaking to a lawyer. "I wasn't at the trial," he added, referring to an earlier civil trial that Trump chose not to attend, in which a jury found him liable for sexually abusing Carroll.
"Mr. Trump, keep your voice down," Kaplan admonished.
Before long, Trump was interjecting again, although the judge quickly put a stop to it.
"You're interrupting these proceedings by talking loudly," Kaplan said.
A jury will determine what, if any, monetary damages Trump might owe Carroll for two statements he made denying her 2019 allegation that he had sexually assaulted her in a department-store changing room in the mid-1990s. In May, a different civil court jury found Trump liable for sexually abusing the author, and for defaming her with a denial he made in 2022.
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The outbursts on Thursday happened outside the presence of the jury, as Kaplan asked Trump lawyer Alina Habba what she planned to ask her client and what she expected him to say. The judge had previously ruled that Trump can't deny the assault from the witness stand, citing the prior verdict.
Trump's actual testimony took mere minutes. Habba asked him whether he stood by a previous video deposition, parts of which were played to the jury earlier in the day.
"100%, yes," was the short reply from the former president.
In response to further questioning, Trump began to say he considered Carroll's accusation to be "totally false" but was cut off and the judge struck that portion of his testimony.
"I just wanted to defend myself" and others, the former president later said, mentioning his family and the White House. At one point when his testimony was curtailed, he shook his head at length.
The cross-examination was similarly brief. Trump confirmed to Carroll attorney Roberta Kaplan (no relation to the judge) that he didn't attend the previous trial.
Soon after, Trump was able to speak more freely on his Truth Social media platform, claiming it is "a False Accusation case" and that he's "winning it all."
Carroll stayed at the courthouse after Trump left as lawyers and the judge discussed the instructions that are scheduled to be given to the jury on Friday. They debated in particular how the judge should word the instructions when it comes to potentially considering Trump's ongoing attacks against Carroll when deciding on punitive damages.
More: In E. Jean Carroll case, expert says Trump could owe $12M (or much more) for defamation
Judge rejects Trump request to toss out the case
Carroll rested her side of the case earlier in the day, and Judge Kaplan rejected a request from Trump's legal team to toss out the lawsuit before it could go to the jury.
Habba argued that Carroll hadn't proven that it was Trump's denials, rather than her accusation, that generated the attacks against her.
"She cannot point to a single opportunity that she has lost," Habba added.
Roberta Kaplan replied that some of the attacks included words and phrases that overlapped with language used in Trump's denials, and said that Carroll's opportunities have been limited since she first accused Trump of rape in 2019: She is never asked to be on television anymore unless it's to talk about Trump.
"The motion is denied," Judge Kaplan swiftly ruled on the request for a mistrial, without explaining his reasoning.
Delays before Trump's possible testimony
The judge rejected a motion from Trump's legal team to block the case. He posted on social media Wednesday night that he was headed back to New York for the trial, which he continued to say involves "False Accusations," despite having been found liable in civil court last May for sexually abusing Carroll. Trump also called Judge Kaplan a "100% Trump Hater," mirroring attacks he leveled against another judge in a separate New York civil fraud case.
The Republican presidential front-runner was also in court Monday morning when the day's proceedings were canceled over concerns that a juror and two Trump lawyers might have COVID-19. Trump attorney Habba asked the judge to allow Trump to take the stand after the New Hampshire primary on Tuesday.
"He was planning to testify," Habba said.
Judge Kaplan later canceled all proceedings on Tuesday and Wednesday, without public explanation.
The trial is restricted to determining damages Trump may owe Carroll, after a previous jury found him liable for sexually abusing Carroll in a New York department store in the 1990s. That jury also determined Trump defamed Carroll when he called her allegation a "con job" in 2022, ordering him to pay a combined $5 million for the abuse and defamation.
The current trial deals with potential damages for his initial denials while president, when he said "people should pay dearly for such false accusations.” Carroll lawyer Shawn Crowley encouraged the jury to consider not just the direct harm Carroll suffered from those statements, but also what amount of damages would deter the self-proclaimed billionaire from defaming Carroll in the future.
"It's time to make him stop,'' Crowley told the jurors. ''It's time to make him pay dearly for what he's done.''
Former editor-in-chief of Elle magazine Roberta Myers testified as the final witness in Carroll's case Thursday morning. She said that Carroll's former advice column at the magazine was popular and that she thought of Carroll as both a truth teller and careful journalist.
That testimony feeds into the case from Carroll's legal team that Trump, by calling Carroll a liar, injured Carroll especially because she was a journalist whose brand was closely tied to telling the truth.
Carroll's legal team also presented the jury with statements in which Trump has continued to attack Carroll, calling her allegations against him "a made up, fabricated story" and "election interference." The team played a segment of a video deposition that has previously been made public in which Trump confused Carroll for his second wife, Marla Maples, in a photograph.
Long-term friend of Carroll called to testify by Trump team
When it was Trump's turn to start putting on a defense, his legal team called an old friend of Carroll's, Carol Martin, who testified in the previous trial to having been told about the assault soon after it happened.
Martin admitted to having sent a private text message in which she had said Carroll's narcissism had "run amok," and described Carroll as a "drug addict" where the drug was Carroll herself.
Martin described herself as a "little hyperbolic" and said she was not suspicious of Carroll's motives. She also said Carroll doesn't often talk about bad things that happen to her.
Living in fear, sleeping with a gun near her bed
Carroll testified last week that she has faced a barrage of attacks, including death threats, from Trump supporters. She said she lives in fear and sleeps with a gun near her bed.
Trump lawyer Habba has tried to paint Carroll as an attention seeker who is responsible for anything bad that has happened to her. When Habba cross-examined Carroll, Habba suggested the attacks could be a product of Carroll's initial accusation, rather than the denial that Trump posted on Twitter hours later, or a second denial made the next day.
Even during the trial, which began Jan. 18, Trump has been posting attacks against Carroll online.
It's unclear what might unfold if the former president defies the judge's restrictions on testimony. Already, the pair had a heated exchange after Crowley said she overheard Trump calling Carroll's accusation a "witch hunt" and "con job" within earshot of jurors.
"Mr. Trump, I hope I don't have to consider excluding you from the trial,” Judge Kaplan said. “I understand you're probably eager for me to do that.”
“I would love it,” Trump shot back.
"You just can't control yourself in this circumstance, apparently,” Judge Kaplan said.
This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Donald Trump briefly testified in E. Jean Carroll defamation case today
